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# Losing Agency Part 3

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# **Losing Agency Part 3: What Remains?**

*This is **Part 3** of a **3-part series**. [Read Part 1: The Erasure](http://localhost:49622/Statico4uvmVxB/externalProject/losing_agency_part3_draft.md#) | [Read Part 2: Living Outside the Snow Globe](http://localhost:49622/Statico4uvmVxB/externalProject/losing_agency_part3_draft.md#)*

When everything got stripped away—marriage, daily fatherhood, income, home, location, all sense of identity—people kept telling me I still had choices. What? What choices?

<aside>

*You can control your attitude.*

*You can choose how you respond.*

*You still have agency over your perspective.*

</aside>

And technically? They're not wrong.

But here's what they don't understand:
**when external circumstances remove your options,
the agency that remains isn't enough to rebuild a life.**

It's enough to survive. Maybe.

But not enough to escape.

---

## **The Disco Ball**

I think about one’s agency like a disco ball. You know—covered in tiny mirrors reflecting light at a specific angles while spinning in the center of the room. To see your reflection clearly in any one mirror, you have to be lined up with it “just right.” Most of the time, you only see fragments of yourself. Distorted pieces. Incomplete images.

The ‘disco ball’ metaphor is how I approach problems, situations, or circumstances. How much of this do I see clearly? How much am I missing?  What am I not aware that I don't know?When people say "*you still have choices*," they're looking at **one** mirror on the disco ball. Maybe two.

They see what is visibly clear to them *attitude, perspective, mindset* and assume that's the complete picture. But they're not seeing what I'm seeing from where I'm standing. They're not accounting for the angles they can't see. The reflections that aren't visible to them.

So when they say I still have agency, what they mean is:

*"From where I'm standing, **I can see options you're not taking**."*

**What they don't realize is that from where I'm standing, those options don't exist.**

---

## **Agency You Have vs. Don't Have**

Let me be specific.

### **Agency I Had**

- **My attitude** — I could choose to see my situation as temporary (*distortion*) or permanent (*reality*). I could frame it as a challenge to overcome or a collapse I'd never recover from.
- **My daily routine** — I could go to Starbucks or stay in my car.  I could apply for jobs or give up. I could shower at the campground (*when I had money*) or let hygiene slip.
- **My perspective** — I could tell myself "I'm still part of society, just camping" or acknowledge "I'm homeless and the **system doesn't want me**."
- **My voice** — I could speak up, ask for help, reach out to family. Or I could isolate and suffer alone.

That was my agency. I controlled those things. They mattered.

### **Agency I Didn't Have**

- **Other people's decisions —** My ex-wife chose to end the marriage. Employers chose not to hire me. Landlords wouldn't rent to someone with no income. Those weren't my choices.
- **Economic reality** — 2000+ job applications, under five interviews. 30 months unemployed despite [decades of experience](https://bertmahoney.com). The market didn't care. I couldn't force it to.
- **Structural barriers** — No home = no mailing address = harder to get hired. No mailing address = no support services from county, state or fed = no medicaid, no snap, no nothing. No income = no apartment. No car insurance = risk of losing transportation. Can't shower regularly = harder to interview. It's a trap with no exit.
- **Time —** I couldn't undo the past. Couldn't skip ahead to be "*back on my feet,*" or “*healed & recovered*” or “*feeling like I belong.*” I was stuck in the present, isolated between 2 worlds, day after day, with no clear path forward. I had no idea when anything would change, or if it ever would. I woke up every morning telling myself, “maybe today my luck will change”
- **My nervous system** — Depression, anxiety, hypervigilance, dissociation—I didn't choose those. They were responses to circumstances I didn't control. I could manage them (meditation, therapy when accessible), but **I couldn't turn them off**.

So yes, I had agency over my attitude and daily choices. But I **did not** have agency over the circumstances that trapped me in survival mode.

---

## **The Difference Between "Bad Choices" and "Ground Disappearing"**

I’ve heard it said many times, "*You always have a choice*." And I get it. That's empowering language. It puts you in the driver's seat. It means you're not a victim—you're an agent. But there's a difference between **"having a choice"** and **"the ground disappeared beneath me and I couldn't stop the fall."**

### Having a choice means you have agency.

- choosing to quit your job.
- choosing to spend money.
- choosing to ignore people.

Those are decisions. Those are things someone could control and could own.

### Ground disappearing looked like this for me.

I moved out in June 2023 at my—then—spouses request. I didn't want the divorce. I wanted couples counseling. I wanted to heal the marriage. You need two people to want their marriage. That wasn't possible.

I have applied to well over 2000 jobs. The market says I'm “overqualified,” "*too expensive,*" "*too experienced,*" or ghosted. The market says, we’ve decided to “go in another direction.” I can't force someone to hire me. That's not my choice.

I lived in my car for 16 months not because I wanted to, but because I had no other option at the time. No income, no backup = no apartment. That's circumstance in California. I couldn't plan beyond 24-36 hours when living in the car because I didn't know many things: where I'd sleep, how or where I'd eat, or if something would not work out, or go wrong—and if it did, hopefully not catastrophic.

Survival mode doesn't allow for long-term planning. That's not a choice—that's biology moving into ‘lizard brain’ mode.

---

### **This is the distinction people miss:**

When you're in survival mode, the ground isn't under your feet.

You're in freefall.

Telling someone in freefall to "choose a better attitude" is akin to thinking they could flap their arms and fly.

It’s similar to people equating  clinical depression with “*feeling sad.*”

Both are not helpful.

Both are insulting.

---

## **What Agency Actually Remains**

So what's left when everything's been stripped away?

**Not much. But it's not nothing.**

Here's what I had control over, even at the lowest point:

---

### **1. How I see my situation (perspective)**

I could choose to believe my situation was temporary or permanent.
That I'd recover or I wouldn't. That I was still "me" or that I'd *lost myself completely*.

That is real agency. And it mattered. Because the story I told myself shaped whether I kept trying, or completely gave up on life.

But here's the catch: **changing your perspective doesn't change your circumstances.**

I could tell myself "I'm still valuable, I'm still competent, I'll get through this" all day long.

But that didn't put a roof over my head. It didn't get me a job. It didn't undo the collapse.

Perspective is agency. But it's not *enough* agency to rebuild.

---

### **2. Small daily actions** (routine)

I could choose to go to Starbucks or not (money dependent). Apply for jobs or not. Shower or not. Eat or not.

These were choices. Small ones. But they added up.

Every day at Starbucks, I pretended I was still part of society.

That was a distortion. It wasn’t true—but it kept me sane, it was also survival.

It kept me from feeling like I had disappeared.

---

### **3. Who I reach out to (connection)**

I could self-isolate or ask for help. I could tell my extended family what was happening or hide it.

I could engage with other homeless people or avoid them.

I mostly isolated. Out of shame. Out of fear. Out of exhaustion.

But that was still agency. I chose isolation because connection felt too risky, too vulnerable, too much.

Was it a good choice? No. But it was mine.

---

## **The Trap of "Just Choose Better"**

Here's what people don't get when they say "you still have choices":

**When your options are all awful, choosing between them isn't agency—it's triage.**

<aside>

Do I eat today or charge my car?

Do I stay in a place that feels unsafe or drive somewhere else and burn gas I can't afford?

Do I apply for another job I won't get or save my energy for something else?

</aside>

Those aren't choices in any meaningful sense. Those are survival calculations.

And when every option is a losing option, telling me I "still have agency" feels like gaslighting.

Because yes, technically, I get it I'm choosing something.

But I'm not *steering.* I'm trying not to fall into a spiral of self-hate or being on ‘the dark side.’

---

## **Distortion as Survival vs. Self-Deception**

Tony Robbins says we're "*Distortion-Deletion Creatures.*"

We distort reality to cope. We delete what's too painful to process.

I did that constantly.

<aside>

**Distortion as survival:** Going to Starbucks every day and pretending I was still part of society.

Telling myself "this is temporary" when I had no evidence it would end.

Framing job applications as progress when they led nowhere other than compounding my mega-tons of rejection.

</aside>

It really sucked when I’d have moments to snap me out of the spell that kept me alive. It kept me from completely giving up. It was adaptive based on time, place, mood, surroundings.

<aside>

**Distortion as self-deception:** Believing I still had the same agency I had before.

Telling myself "*I just need to try harder*" when the problem wasn't effort—it was circumstance.

Blaming myself for things I couldn't control.

</aside>

That hurt me a LOT. It reinforced the core "*not good enough*" story going back to my kindergarten days.

It kept me stuck in shame instead of acknowledging the structural reality I was inside of…

> the system ***doesn't** want me*, and no amount of effort *will **change** that*.
>

<aside>

The line between survival distortion and harmful self-deception is thin.

And I crossed it a lot.

</aside>

Which brings me back to the question that’s haunted me all along.

## **Who Am I Now?**

In **Part 1**, I asked: *Who am I when all my roles are gone?*

In **Part 2**, I described what it's like to live outside the snow globe while pretending to be inside it.

Now, in **Part 3**, I'm asking: **What agency do I actually have to rebuild?**

And the honest answer is: **Not as much as people think.**

But it’s more than I thought when at my lowest.

### I have agency over:

- How I see myself (even when the world sees me differently)
- How I spend my limited energy (even when all options suck)
- Who I connect with (even when connection feels impossible. I still self-isolate far too much)
- The story I tell about what happened (even when the story is painful)

### I don't have agency over:

- Other people's choices
- Economic systems that reject me
- Time (I can't skip ahead to "recovered")
- Circumstances that keep me trapped

### **Agency isn't binary. It's not "you have it" or "you don't."**

It's more nuanced than that, like having a spectrum of many options. And where you land on that spectrum depends on how many options you actually have—not how many options **people think you should have**.

When I had a home, a job, a marriage, daily fatherhood—I had a lot of agency. I could steer my life when not deeply depressed.

When I lost all of that? My agency shrunk to: attitude, daily routine, perspective. That's real and matters. However it's not enough to escape the triggers, traps, or escape the dark side.

At times it's just enough to survive it. Maybe.

If you're lucky. If you don't give up.

---

## **This Is Part 3 of 3.**
This is what remains when everything's been stripped away.

Not nothing. But not enough. Agency over perspective. Agency over small daily choices. Agency over how you frame your story.

But not agency over the systems, structures, and circumstances that put you outside the snow globe in the first place.

I'm rebuilding. I'm well into figuring out who I am when I'm not an in-person father, a husband, a designer (cog in financial machine), Soccer Coach.

I'm learning what it means to have limited agency, and work within limits without blaming myself for things I can't control.

It's slow. It's hard. Some days everything goes backwards. I fall into a dark hole and I’m overwhelmed that this is all still ongoing all these years later. And some days, I'm not sure I'm making progress at all.

But I'm still here.

I survived the ego erasure.

I survived living outside the snow globe.

And I'm sharing it so you know you are not alone in experiencing things like this; we’re all human.

---

**Be well.**

---

Projects/Barely, But Here/Media Publishing/Transcripts/Losing Agency Part 3 2f8ffa30cf0b808ab5bfe1d974645105.md

Losing Agency Part 3


[Assistant]
Jacob Bozarth [00:00:00]:
I think that's the beautiful thing about podcasting in the medium there is, like, it's an evolving medium, and there's a lot of freedom and flexibility to really find what works best for you as the host, as your personality, as your style.

Davy [00:00:14]:
You're listening to the brands that book show, a podcast for creative entrepreneurs who want practical tips and strategies to build engaging brands and craft high converting websites. We're your hosts, Davy and Christa, cofounders of a brand and website design agency specializing in visual brand design and show it websites. You're listening to the Branson Book Show. Today's interview is with podcast expert Jacob Bosart. And when I say podcast expert, I mean it. Jacob's been a full time podcast professional for the last ten years, executive producer of two number one podcasts and has launched three companies in the podcasting space, including Resonant Recordings, which has worked with over 3,500 podcasters, including 16 number one shows in all of Apple and brands like Honda, Amazon, Twitter, and Salesforce. He's also one of the figures behind culpable, a podcast show that went on to get over 45,000,000 downloads and hit number one in Apple Podcasts. And then he later on started ReSound, an AI audio tool for podcasters, currently helps over 15,000 creators automate the tedious parts of podcast production.

Davy [00:01:26]:
And if that is not enough, he recently launched podcast primer, where he offers resources and consulting to help you grow your brand through podcasting. Today, we're chatting about what makes a podcast successful in 2025, and we hope you enjoy this interview. As always, links and resources can be found in the show notes. Check them out at DavyandKristen.com. And if you enjoyed this episode, please consider leaving a review over at Apple Podcasts. It really does help. And now on to the episode. Today's episode is sponsored by BDAO, formerly Sumo, the very best intelligent form and pop up tool for your website.

Davy [00:02:04]:
Deliver the right message to the right visitor using our advanced targeting rules. Whether you want to display a pop up to only new visitors or generate a unique discount code for those who subscribe to your list, You can get the job done using the Dow. One of my personal favorite features is the show a tab function. Basically, how this works is when visitors close the pop up, it minimizes to the bottom of the page so that visitors can open it back up if they'd like. But it also remains out of their way while they browse. You can check out how that feature works over at the Davy and Krista website. Also, use the code Davy and Krista to save 20% on your subscription. Create an experience on your website using the Dow.

Davy [00:02:49]:
Alright. Welcome back to the brands that book podcast. Really excited about today's conversation because we are talking about podcasting and that's something that's been on my mind as we head into the new year. Really been thinking about revamping this podcast, maybe starting another podcast. There's no better person to talk with than Jacob Bozarth who has founded a number of different businesses and agencies but right now running podcast primer. So excited to chat with you, Jacob, about podcasting.

Jacob Bozarth [00:03:16]:
Yeah. No. So excited to be here, Davey. And, yeah, love your podcast. I've benefited from listening to that and getting some great advice there and excited to dive in and talk podcasting with you.

Davy [00:03:28]:
Yeah. Well, I was excited to get connected with you through mutual friend, Andy Mauer, who's also been on the podcast here. And like I said, thinking a lot about podcasting as we head into the new year, and that's your background. But before we get started, I'd love to hear a little bit more about your background. I feel like, like many of us, lots of different twists and turns over the last few years, and now you're running podcast primer. So give us a backstory. How'd you how'd you get here?

Jacob Bozarth [00:03:55]:
Yeah. Great question. Like many, I would say entrepreneurs kind of didn't go as planned or, like, expected, you know, kind of stumbled into it to some extent. So I have an audio engineering background, went to school for audio engineering at Middle Tennessee State University, and really love, like, the studio environment, the recording environment. There's something I always just very special that felt very special about that. And so, yeah, I was going to school actually to be in ministry. It was in seminary and ended up in Louisville, Kentucky, reconnected with a friend, long story short, and we started doing some production. We're like, hey.

Jacob Bozarth [00:04:32]:
We both have degrees in audio engineering, and so we started helping a friend with their podcast. And, yeah, it it kinda took off by word-of-mouth and then started helping other people as well. And I kinda just, you know, listening to different podcasts. Podcasting was in its kinda infancy stages back in this was in 02/2014. And I would listen to a lot of podcast, and and it was really frustrating, like, whenever it was great content, but the quality of the audio was really bad and distracting. And so myself as an audio engineer was like, man, I I really feel like there's an opportunity here to help people and to kind of remove that distraction or remove that piece. And so we started resonate recordings and and then really lean into the podcast industry at the time. And that just continued to grow over time.

Jacob Bozarth [00:05:19]:
The first company I started was Resonate Recordings, and we grew it to work with about 3,500 podcasters, had a great opportunity to work with a lot of big brands and well known true crime podcast. That was kind of what really helped us kinda kinda grow organically. Was we had some ads on these different podcasts, kind of swapped out some, like, discounted services for these just organic. Hey. If you need help with your podcast production, check out resonate recordings. For me, that was like a testimony of, like, hey. Podcasting, man, this like, just in and of itself, the ads, the marketing, it works because overnight, like, no joke, we once we started getting those those shout outs or ads in those podcasts, it really started to grow organically. And then, yeah, in 2021, I spun out another company called Resound, and that is basically an AI audio editing platform that was built as a to really solve an internal problem that resonate was we spent a lot of time editing out these tedious parts of the podcast, umms and ahs mostly.

Jacob Bozarth [00:06:22]:
And so we decided, hey. Let's train these AI models to find and recognize these audio discrepancies and cut down on that. And so I still I still do run Resound as well. It's been a lot of fun. It's grown grown organically. We have a a lot of users that are using Resound to automate the tedious parts of the editing and enhance the quality of the audio. And then, yeah, I've started recently podcast primer where I'm, like, really just kinda strategically consulting with brands and businesses and helping them kind of give them guidance really. Like, podcasting can feel really overwhelming, and so helping them automate different parts of the process and, like, kind of refine their process, really find the right tech stack for their needs, and train their team and just kinda give some guidance there on how to grow a successful podcast that ultimately helps them grow their business.

Jacob Bozarth [00:07:13]:
So, yeah, it's been a lot of fun.

Davy [00:07:14]:
Yeah. Yeah. And love the, the unexpected start to the story, you know, studying that seminary, and then now you're, you know, doing a lot of audio engineering type stuff through podcasting and running an agency. I've said on the podcast a number of times, my my major in college was theology. And then, you know, now I'm running a design agency and a SAS business, you know? So funny how we get to where we're at right now, but also interesting how I feel like God doesn't waste anything along the way. Absolutely. Yeah. Well, I'm excited about this conversation mostly because I feel like we're in a weird spot when it comes to podcasting.

Davy [00:07:47]:
On the one hand, you know, I started my podcast back in 02/2018. Since then, Chris has joined me on the podcast as well. You know, I feel like even though, you know, you were an early adopter in 02/2014, I still feel like in 02/2018, it was sort of there just wasn't as many people doing it. And I still think now podcasting to a certain extent is still in its infancy a little bit, but it's definitely growing and becoming more popular, but podcasts aren't as ubiquitous as like blogs, you know, or something like that. Right. So what we've been thinking about is basically our podcast going forward so far. We experimented a little bit with YouTube early on, but never really found that most people listen to the podcast via iTunes or Spotify or something like that. They listen to the audio only version.

Davy [00:08:35]:
So we dropped YouTube, But now it seems like so many podcasts are video podcasts. So that's something that we're we're considering moving back toward. But basically, I'm trying to figure out, like, what are the trends heading into 2025? Where is podcasting going? Should people be moving to video? That's a I mean, that's a lot already, so I'm gonna leave it there. I feel like I just, you know, I just threw up a lot of information.

Jacob Bozarth [00:08:59]:
Yeah. Oh, man. Video, yeah, video and video podcasting and definitely the increase of popularity with video has been, I don't wanna say, like, a controversial topic, but somewhat a controversial topic in the podcast industry, especially with podcasting being, you know, an an audio arguably an audio first platform. You know, I think it kinda begs the question now of, like, what what is a podcast? You know? You know, you have a lot of podcast on YouTube, like, is is a video you know? Like, arguably, there's a lot of videos on YouTube that you could say these are podcasts, you know, and people talking or having conversations or interviews are historically more of, yeah, more, quote, un more not, like, not described as a podcast. They're not distributed through an RSS feed and distributed to Spotify and and Apple Podcasts and all those different platforms. And so, man, yeah, I I am of the camp that I I believe video is a complimentary asset to podcasting and something that is just gonna has just really allowed the the medium to continue to expand and grow, and another great way just to distribute content and to get it out to more people. And so whenever I have those conversations with people of, like, should I should we add video? Should we not add video? Right? Well, I think there's some questions you have to ask yourself of, like yeah. Number one, like, do you have the capacity to do it? Now there are since even starting in, like, whenever I first started my first agency in 02/2017, I remember meeting Josh, who's the CEO of Zencastr, the tool we're using now.

Jacob Bozarth [00:10:40]:
They were the only remote recording platform out there that had high quality recordings, and they didn't even have video at the time. And so these platforms have grown and expanded. Now there's also Riverside and SquadCast and Zencast, and they all do high quality video and audio locally. And so I think now, like, historically, I would have said, like, yeah. Don't do video because it's just like you're gonna add a level of complexity, and that's not worth your troubles in most cases. But again, it really kinda depends on your unique scenario and your unique situation. But now with all these different great platforms, and you don't have to rely on a a tool like Zoom, which is arguably gonna have, like, low quality video and audio for most of the recordings, like, it's it's kinda like why not? Like, why not have another another distribution channel that you can reach potentially millions of listeners and viewers. Right? And also now with Spotify adding in, like, the ability to distribute video episodes, I think most people probably aren't watching the videos, but it's kinda one of those things of, like, why not? And I I that that's kinda what I've said.

Jacob Bozarth [00:11:52]:
It's, like, it's it's a great way to, like, continue. It's another medium. It's another the way I think about it, it's another distribution. It's another directory like Spotify, like Apple Podcasts, like Amazon, like all these different platforms that whenever you set up your podcast, typically, you do distribute it to. And we had shows in the past kind of before video or popular where we would essentially just publish a video file with, like, a a thumbnail onto YouTube just to use it in that way. So sorry to go off on the rant about video, but I feel like that's kind of a hot topic and a question. I've seen a lot of people really leverage video. And like you said, I think even in just in the conversations, it's helpful to have to see people's facial expressions and their body language and all those things that you miss out on whenever you don't have the video if you are doing remote recording.

Jacob Bozarth [00:12:43]:
But I think it's also really a great tool to to leverage for, like and and I'm sure there's a lot of overlap there of, like, with what you all do with websites and branding is like, it's just a great assets, like social assets, to be able to post video grams, to be able to post clips online, to give the listeners that visual component. You know, it's it's really cool. Like, I think I listen to a lot of true crime podcast. And so you develop a picture, like an image of what the host looks like and as the story's going on. Right? And most true crime podcasts don't have the video. And then whenever sometimes whenever you see what that person looks like, like, it changes that view. So I don't know. To some extent, I really like video.

Jacob Bozarth [00:13:23]:
For that reason, I think it is more of a helpful tool to grow and market your show rather than, like, completely shift over to, like, everyone should do video. I do think a lot of times, especially if you're doing in person podcasting, video can add a level of complexity that makes it yeah. Like, makes it harder to maintain things that are more important, like consistency of and getting your stuff out there. I was watching one of your videos, and I heard you say, like, content is king. I think it was content is king and consistency is queen or something like something to that effect about SEO and growing that. And And I would say the same thing with podcasting. Like, it's more important that you're consistent in your release. And so whenever it comes down to, like, should you do video, should you not do video, it's the question's not really that I would say is, like, more of, yeah, what what's your capacity and what do you have the what is your team internal team have the ability to maintain the consistency? Because that's a lot more important, I would say, over having video that are not having video.

Davy [00:14:27]:
Yeah. And, you know, one of the things that I've noticed in my own viewing habits or listening habits to podcasts, like, I used to have certain podcasts that I listened to, I'd wait for the episode to come out. Right? Like, each and every week when a new episode drop, like, I'd listen to that episode. I don't have a lot of podcasts like that anymore. Maybe maybe none at all, really. A lot of the podcasts that I listen to, I also follow those podcasts on social media. So I'll see a clip drop and that will sound interesting and then I'll go listen to that while I'm at the gym. Right? I have some podcasts that I almost never listen to, but I follow on social media because I enjoy listening to just the the clips that I see.

Davy [00:15:03]:
And that's been really interesting to me as well because, like, a number of these podcasts, like, I really enjoy following those podcasts, but I just don't they're just not either a part of my regular rotation or I very rarely or never actually go listen to a full episode. You know, of course, the ones that I don't listen to full episodes of, generally, they're like comedy podcasts. So I feel like the clip is kind of the gold from that podcast. Right? Whereas if I hear something that's really interesting from a business podcast, I'll for sure go and listen to the whole episode. But I wonder if that's sort of a trend, you know, across the board as we look at our own and evaluate our own numbers for the brands that book podcast, like our downloads aren't as high as they were back in 2020. And there's probably reasons for that as well. Like, people are sitting at home back in back in 2020. Right? But we still get a ton of leads from the podcast.

Davy [00:15:49]:
So, you know, we haven't seriously considered, like, shutting down the podcast, but we are kind of figuring out, okay, what's the point of this channel? What does success look like? How can we maximize downloads and views if we're sharing across social media? Like, how should we be thinking about those things?

Jacob Bozarth [00:16:04]:
Yeah. No. That's that's a great question, and I think you hit on something there that's really important for podcasters and people thinking about starting a podcast or that have a podcast to really define before they get into it. And that is, like, what does success look like? Because it it really is relative. You know? It's like, there can be a lot of vanity metrics that are out there. Similarly, I'm sure with websites and with website traffic, it's like you have, you know, your top of funnel. Like, we've we've done blog posts in the past, like, best true crime podcast. That was very top of funnel.

Jacob Bozarth [00:16:33]:
We got a ton of web traffic, but really, it wasn't most of those didn't convert super well. And so I think really it's really important to define for you, for your podcast, like, what is success? Right? Is it to get leads for your business? Is it to educate? Is it to provide value to a specific group of people? Is it to bring awareness about the specific purpose? And I think that's really, really important whenever you're starting your podcast. And these goals and these kind of what you set out to achieve may change and evolve or along the way. And I think that's that's okay. And it's important to kind of assess and look at your metrics wherever you host your podcast. You know, a lot of them provide some very valuable insights around who your listener is, where people are listening from, the general stuff like that, how long people listen. Most people are listening on mobile devices. And so I think whenever I look at podcast and podcast analytics, I think it's it's really important to kinda zoom out and look at the big picture as a whole.

Jacob Bozarth [00:17:33]:
And then it's really important as well to, I think, define your kind of ideal listener of who that is, to know your listeners, to get listener feedback, to kinda hear, you know, so the people that are coming in through your podcast that you're getting leads from, like, I I think it's really important to talk to them, like, what did you like about the show? How did you find the show? Because that's going to tell a story that's, I think, going to be a lot less of that vanity metric and really, really valuable insights into the unique value that you're providing to your listeners and the unique, like, the content that resonates the most with your listeners. And I think it's that allows you to really double down on that and to leverage that more. If they found you on social media, right, by all means, like, continue to push out those social shorts. And I think you're right. And I think on what you said around finding, like, not listening to podcasts or waiting for your next episode to drop, like, I would say the same for myself. With that being said, I still have, like, some true crime shows where they are more of that serialized, you know, where they're releasing, where each episode kinda builds on the previous one. But I think by and large podcasting, specifically around the episodic style, the interviews. Most people are discovering those more from, like you said, the social content, the short clips, the reels, the different things like that.

Jacob Bozarth [00:18:50]:
And so I think it's really important to kinda figure out where your audience is, where your ideal listener are coming from, and, like, who is your listener? I think that's really important. I think a lot of people go into that beforehand. And a lot of businesses, they already kinda know that. Right? They've done extensive research a lot of times on who their ideal customer profile is and kinda where they're at and where they spend their time online. And so use that, you know, if you're a brand or business and apply that. Obviously, it's it's helpful to, like, confirm that and nothing you know, talking to your customers and, like, doing user research and interviews and speaking with them. But also can be a great way is, like, getting feedback from your your listeners. So you could do surveys if you have an email list.

Jacob Bozarth [00:19:33]:
Like, just leverage the assets that you already have as a brand or whatever those things are. If you already have an audience on YouTube or on Facebook or Instagram or Twitter, like or x. Like, whatever those platforms are, like, leverage those to engage with your your current audience you already have.

Davy [00:19:50]:
Awesome. Yeah. So if someone's planning on launching a podcast in 2025, how would you, you know, how would you recommend that they approach that podcast? In 02/2018, when I was first getting started, it was I think it was more about just starting. Obviously, just starting to a certain extent is always going to be the advice. But again, because you podcast weren't as ubiquitous, you know, I started I had a pretty basic mic to get started with. I mean, there were no bells and whistles. We had a team member, I think, editing the podcast. That's something that I would highly recommend.

Davy [00:20:22]:
I didn't wanna edit my own podcast. It would never happen if I had to edit the podcast. So, you know, if that's the difference between starting or not starting, I would outsource that. But from a production value standpoint, like, what's kind of the, I don't know, the benchmark that you have to hit to enter the podcasting world in 2025 and beyond?

Jacob Bozarth [00:20:42]:
Yeah. I think the quality bar has definitely been raised tremendously. Right? Like, if you have poor quality audio or video, right, your podcast is gonna get overlooked. And I think the bar has just continued to grow as more of these platforms that have made it easier, you know, honestly, to to just, like, have really high quality audio and video production. And there is an expansion of just technologies and tools and with AI. There's more content, right, out there just in general. And so I think it's really, really important that that the quality is you don't cut any corners on that front. And, yeah, I do think it's really important to have spend time on the post production side.

Jacob Bozarth [00:21:24]:
Think about have someone edit whenever hopefully, you have I know I know you do have someone, so whenever my throat I've, like, got a scratch in my throat on this episode. And so, like, whenever I clear my throat or I'm, like, pausing, like, you edit that out, you know, and maybe leave it in for the purposes of this podcast. But, yeah, I think it is important, you know, just to remove those distractions. And it really kinda does depend on the style of show. Right? You have someone like a Joe Rogan where they don't do a lot of editing. They leave in stuff whenever they their mic goes out or they whatever. So I think, again, that comes down really important to, like, knowing your listeners, who they are, and what the style of show is.

Davy [00:22:01]:
Yeah. And maybe you could speak to that a little bit as far as style of show goes too. You know, I remember back when I was starting, people were like, oh, you don't wanna publish episodes more than twenty minutes. People don't have attention spans for more than twenty minutes. But regularly, I would post episodes that were forty five minutes to an hour, and people enjoyed that. And, of course, now there's these long form podcasts that seem to do really well that are one hour to three hours to sometimes four hours long that seem to have a lot of listeners. So, you know, how important is, like, length of the podcast when it comes to planning out your show?

Jacob Bozarth [00:22:33]:
Yeah. Again, I think that's where it can be really important just to have someone who's really in tune with your listeners and listening, like, listening to your listeners, talking to your listeners, and I think that can be a great way just in general to get feedback. You know, if like I said, I think I think it's you have to look at it holistically of, like, your analytics obviously tell a story. And so, like, anything, you know, whether you're looking at website analytics, video analytics on YouTube, like, right, you kinda know, like, how long people are listening. Is there a drop off at a certain point? And so I think thinking about that of, like, what is the content? What's the content you're sharing? And, you know, if it's a conversational debate, or is it, like, in more of an informative are you educating? Are you giving you all have some short podcasts that I think are really, really helpful because it's, like, succinct, like, specific topic you're sharing you and Chris are sharing and giving your listeners and educating them. And so I would say the the most important thing is, like, don't putting, you know, and maybe this is like a life's life lesson I've learned over time is, like, don't put yourself in a box. Don't put others in a box. Like, really be open and let give yourself space and freedom to do what works for you and what serves your listeners and serves your your content the most.

Jacob Bozarth [00:23:52]:
I think a lot of people can come into podcasting and and candidly, like and there still is, but there, historically, was just a lot of poor information out there, technical, and I would say more creative and and content as well. I think that's the beautiful thing about podcasting in the medium there is, like, it's an evolving medium, and there's a lot of freedom and flexibility to really find what works best for you as the host, as your personality, as your style. You all have different types of interviews, which I think is beautiful about that. Like you there's just so much flexibility to really serve the content that you're sharing. And then also, like, that's are ultimately that's like bringing the value to your listeners and and determining what they like and how they like.

Davy [00:24:37]:
Yeah. Well, I wanna jump to a little bit of feedback on our podcast for sure as we think about, you know, potentially, like, relaunching it or revamping it as we head into the new year. Before we get there, continuing the conversation on launching a podcast, what would you say maybe we could just rattle off some equipment that people would would need to look into? And I'm sure if they go to podcast primer, you have more information about that, but just sort of baseline equipment that maybe somebody should be ready to invest in in order to launch their podcast.

Jacob Bozarth [00:25:05]:
Yeah. I would say the most important thing, again, it kinda well, they're different situations. Right? It's like, what's your context? Is it just you talking? Is it monologue? Are you doing interviews? Are you doing remote interviews? Are you doing in person interviews? Do you have a cohost? So really determining first and foremost, like, what's the the format or what's the style of how you're gonna be recording, how many people, that type of thing. By and large, I would say most people are great with a USB microphone like I have here. Like, it's a Shure m v seven. There's another one, a Samsung q two u that's a great USB microphone. And again, with the with the platforms now, with Zencastr, with Riverside, with SquadCast, those platforms are just, like, really, really top notch. They record your audio locally.

Jacob Bozarth [00:25:49]:
They record your guest audio locally. And most guests have at least a pair of headphones. Right? So I would say the second most important thing is, like, I see you're wearing in ears, which are great. Having a good high quality pair of headphones so you can hear yourself, you can hear your guest. I think that's really important to hear or to have. There's a lot of other great tools like the road caster that you have, I know as well, I have over here as well. And those are great tools. I think the important thing is like trying to keep it simple.

Jacob Bozarth [00:26:18]:
So you don't feel overwhelmed. There's a lot of different tools out there that can feel really overwhelming. You don't you don't need to go to school to get a degree to learn how to use Pro Tools necessarily to edit your podcast, and there's a lot of different great applications out there. Little self promotion like Resound is a tool that we've designed. It's simple and easy to use in the browser. You upload your audio. It highlights and rec recognizes all the ums and ahs and audio discrepancies. It does some enhancements to your audio to make it sound better to level the consistency of the levels.

Jacob Bozarth [00:26:51]:
So if you don't have an editor, like, I think you said you all use, we edit podcast. Resonate Recordings is the production agency that I I started that does a lot of editing. If you don't have the budget maybe to hire someone like that, I would say at the very least, use a tool like Resound. Auphonic is another great tool out there that does some noise reduction that levels your audios audio levels out there. Right? There's nothing more frustrating to me than listening to a podcast and, like, having to adjust the levels, whether you're listening at the gym or in your car. And And so a lot of those tools, they'll just make sure your guest and your levels or your different cohost levels are consistent. And I think that's really important to have because there's dynamics. There's parts of the audio.

Jacob Bozarth [00:27:31]:
There's podcasts where I'm gonna talk louder. There's parts where I'm gonna talk quieter. Maybe I'm farther away from my mic. But, yeah, I would say if you're starting, like, just try to get a good USB microphone, good pair of headphones. Most people have a computer that they can use, and you can record locally to that in a lot of these microphones. Alright. And then the last most important piece I would say is, like, get a dynamic microphone. There's a lot of misinformation out there that, like, the Blue Yeti is a great microphone.

Jacob Bozarth [00:27:59]:
I despise the Blue Yeti. It's actually a good quality microphone, but it's a style of microphone that's really designed to be used in a recording studio. It's like a large day frame condenser microphone, so picks up a lot of the noise. You might have heard this earlier. My heat kicked on in the middle of it's snowing here in the middle of one of the interviews. And this is a dynamic mic, and it's not going to pick up as much because it's basically it's think of a balloon coming out the front of the microphone. And so it's only going to pick up like if I lean away, like six inches, you know, so so far, it's just not nearly as sensitive. And so a lot of those condenser microphones require extra source of power that makes it really sensitive.

Jacob Bozarth [00:28:38]:
And they have this big diaphragm where it just picks up a lot of the room noise and the hiss and stuff like that. And also a lot of people don't know the direction because of the way it's designed. It's more, microphone designed to look cool, honestly. They speak into the wrong side of it and stuff like that. And so don't be like Blue Yeti, like, sorry, Blue, if you're a sponsor of this podcast one day.

Davy [00:29:00]:
No. No. It was my very first microphone, but it made such a big difference switching mics. And, you know, as far as, like I mean, the quality of mic really does make a difference, you know? And I think that was, like, one of the big level ups early on was switching from that, like, kind of starter mic to this mic that I'm using now. And this is, of course, a relatively expensive mic. And but there are we have a few I forget what they're called. Rode makes them the little pod they're like the, podcaster mic. Do you know what I'm talking about? I should know the name of it off the top of my head.

Jacob Bozarth [00:29:32]:
Those are great as well. Yeah. I mean and candidly, a little self plugging here on podcast primer. So I have basically a podcast operating system. I have an equipment recommendation list in there and different things like that. And, yeah, the Rode PodMic is a great one as well. So, yeah, I'm happy to I could even share some additional recommendations with you all. Maybe maybe we could create a lead magnet that we could use for, email capture.

Jacob Bozarth [00:29:56]:
You know? Yeah. There's a lot of great microphones, but I would say, yeah, the Rode PodMic. You're using the Shure SM seven b, which I believe is, like, an iconic microphone. Michael Jackson used it to record his vocals on, I think, a lot of a lot of his records. I've used it in in the studio before. Great microphone. And then, yeah, the the one I have is basically kind of it's designed to be, like, quote, unquote, it's not technically, but the USB version of that microphone, it's the Shure m v seven. Yeah.

Jacob Bozarth [00:30:24]:
A lot of the USB mics, they work as they double as, like, a XLR mic as well, so you can plug it into, like, the Rodecaster or Zoom handheld Zoom recorder, that type of thing. But I would just say, like, start small. Try to keep it simple. I mean, I really our consult on my website. So if you just need some guidance of, like, hey. Here's my specific scenario. What equipment would you recommend? I'm happy to put together, like, custom equipment recommendations for people because it really does depend on your unique situation, your unique scenario. Some people, I would recommend, like, the RODECaster.

Jacob Bozarth [00:30:54]:
Some people, I would say no. Like, get a Zoom h five or h six if you're gonna be moving around a lot, if you're gonna be on the go traveling, that type of thing, and just need that kind of simplicity. So yeah. Yeah.

Davy [00:31:05]:
To a certain extent too. Like, even the Shure SM seven b here, like, I got this recommendation. I went from the Blue Yeti mic to this. But then since then, I've gotten a a bunch of Rode PodMics. And honestly, I can't tell the difference between the two. And the Rode Pod mics are a few hundred dollars less expensive or at least at the time of, you know, when I purchased them. So something to keep in mind. I'm sure there's somebody out there that can really tell the difference between those mics.

Davy [00:31:29]:
I can't.

Jacob Bozarth [00:31:30]:
Yeah. A lot of it too depends on your voice and your profile. And so, like, that's where, again, I would say, like, in podcasting and life in general, there's not a one size fits all necessarily. And so, I mean, we candidly, like so I I went to school at MTSU. You know, we had these so much money in the studios and different microphones and stuff like that and microphones that cost more than my car now, like expensive, very expensive microphones. And honestly, like, a lot of time and and that's how, like, all the a lot of these in Nashville and different studios, they'll try out multiple microphones on different singers and different voices because each person's voice profile sounds different and stuff like that. And so even though you might not hear the difference, like, candidly, some people's some microphones sound better on different people's voices. Some microphones have a harsher sound.

Jacob Bozarth [00:32:15]:
Some microphones Some microphones have a harsher sound. Some microphones have more of, like, a warm kind of low end profile that give you more of that broadcast. And so it really kind of depends on the tone of the voice, I would say, as well, and your voice and different people's voices.

Davy [00:32:30]:
That's fascinating. Well, like I've been mentioning all episode, we're thinking about potentially sort of like relaunching our podcast, maybe even rebranding it, kind of a bunch of ideas on the table here. What are the do's and don'ts? So somebody has a podcast like we do and feel like they wanna just breathe a little bit of fresh life into it. What would you say are the do's and don'ts when it comes to doing that? Like, for instance, rebranding, like changing the name, there's a little bit of risk there. But I wonder if, like, keeping the RSS feed the same, but just changing the name, would that help? Those sorts of things. What would you recommend?

Jacob Bozarth [00:33:02]:
Yeah. Great question. Again, I think it's really important to kinda get a big picture look into what's the story that your analytics are telling. Each of the platforms as well have, like, Apple Connect has a has a lot of great insights into, like, what kind of what how people are listening there, how many people were subscribed, that type of thing. I believe Spotify has the same. You know, if you were distributing on YouTube as well, that can be helpful as well. So I would say, like, really, it's important to kinda take take a big step back and just kind of zoom out of being in the weeds and taking a picture and looking at, like, what are your analytics telling you? Because you do have a lot of people that are subscribed to your feed, right, your RSS feed, and and kind of get a big picture of, like, where are people listening from? Are they listening from Spotify? Are they listening directly on your website where you embed the the media player? That type of thing. I think that's really important because, obviously, you wanna have the least amount of negative blowback from that of, you know, all of a sudden you change the feed and then all your subscribers aren't getting the new episodes because there probably still are people out there that do wait for the next episode to drop on your feed that are already subscribed wherever they listen.

Jacob Bozarth [00:34:10]:
And so, yeah, I would say that's the most important thing. Kinda zoom out, take a big picture, look at that. And then from there, yeah, I think there is a lot of freedom there. If you you have the the current feed already and you kind of have a idea of, like, that's a very valuable asset that you already have. So one thing you could consider is, like, what are the different style you all you all do different style of episodes. And so you do these short episodes, you do the longer episodes. I I think it'd be really insightful to see, like, which ones are performing better, which ones do you get more listens on, is there a specific topic, specific keyword that you're kinda targeting around. I think there's a lot of overlap to, like, blogging and just in general, like, the keyword stuff.

Jacob Bozarth [00:34:50]:
The different directories, right, they each kind of have their own SEO. And so that's why I would say like, it's kind of hard because I mean, to some extent, like, YouTube is is its own directory. It's its own like Google, you know, or Bing or like Yahoo and stuff like that. And to some extent, these different directories are still, like there's not one that's, like, established as a winner. And even in different countries, if you look at the stats, like, Spotify is is more popular in some countries. Apple's more popular in some countries. I had some insights into that. I don't have them pulled up right here, but I believe I believe that, like, Spotify leads downloads in all countries except for The US.

Jacob Bozarth [00:35:31]:
Don't don't quote me on that, but there's there's a report that put out by it was published in Pod news. I know that, which is a great podcast newsletter that gives a lot of insights into the industry stuff. So, yeah, I think it's it's really important to kinda know where your listeners are coming from, where they're listening at, and that's gonna help you kinda determine where you go with that. So sorry to scale back to the feed. The feed's a really valuable asset, and I would say one of the the thing that I've learned from the different networks we've worked with is to leverage those existing assets that they already have. It's kinda like that backlink building. Right? If you're doing a website, you already have all this, like, traffic and all this, like, really value that's there on that feed. And so if you launch a new feed, one of the most valuable things you can do is, like, do a feed drop on your existing feed to get people over.

Jacob Bozarth [00:36:17]:
A lot of times people will do that as well with other podcasts that they work on. You all have had a lot of great guests on your show. So I would say, like, make sure if you do launch a new feed, like, hit up all your previous guests and let them know about this. The rebrand stuff, like, you can honestly trade out your artwork, like, at any time, and it's not gonna, like, have necessary well, there's there's some argument there. And I I think it kinda depends on the different directories as well. But, like, you know, if you just made some minor tweaks to your artwork, like, you can do that. Some people actually change out their artwork for different seasons. I know you all do the episode artwork, which I think is is really helpful.

Jacob Bozarth [00:36:53]:
But, yeah, I think, like anything, just definitely taking some time to really, yeah, look at look at the analytics, what the story is telling, and come at it come at it from a strategic approach. Right? And then, obviously, like, keep a pulse on those metrics and kinda seeing what does well, what doesn't do well. I think that's something that I feel like it's easy to not do. I know from experiences, like, you just put stuff out there and then you kinda forget to, like, go back and assess and look at things and see, like, how did that perform? Why did it perform well? What do we do different? What was the topic there? Again, I think there's a lot of, like, the SEO stuff that can be applied from, like, the website and, like, the search engine, like, written text world that applies over to podcasting. And so with having transcripts, with having show notes, with with thinking about what the keyword is, what are people searching, like, there's a lot of overlap there. And I think that, again, that's kinda where like, having it on YouTube as well. Like, the one thing I would I would say to you all is, like, it would make sense to post something about the podcast on YouTube. Maybe you do, but I couldn't find anything out there.

Davy [00:38:00]:
No. We don't right now.

Jacob Bozarth [00:38:02]:
And I don't think that's terrible. But it's like, you already have these recorded as video. Like, why not just, like, republish them on YouTube as well? Just as another channel and another discovery because, like, every episode, I would assume, has a keyword and kind of a topic that you're talking about. And so over time, you know, that's that's just gonna get more and more traffic, plus it's another backlink back into the into the website for your podcast as well.

Davy [00:38:28]:
Yes. Back into the web the web world. Yeah. So, I mean, big takeaway then. Sounds like you wouldn't advise us messing with our feed. We should even if we rebrand, we should use the same feed because we have maybe some built up authority there. I mean, at least we have past episodes that people still listen to.

Jacob Bozarth [00:38:47]:
Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. You have a backlog there. And, like, even a lot of the networks, you know, they'll sell the backlog. You know? So it's, like, a very, very valuable asset. I mean, if you had more I'll give you an example. If you had a seasonal podcast, right, where it's like you got 12 episodes and then you're done.

Jacob Bozarth [00:39:03]:
Right? That season is over. Think of it like a Netflix documentary style podcast. Yeah. Those feeds are super valuable, and a and a lot of the true crime shows that we work with and the shows that get, you know, millions and millions of downloads, those feeds, like, continue and stay the same, and then they will start a new feed for a new show under the same network. And a lot of till, like, season two comes out, they have often, like, a million subscribers that are gonna get that episode and get a note of some people have notifications set up, like, they're gonna get a notification that a new episode drops. So even if you did do a new, like, yeah, did do a new feed, there's still value in arguably in, like, keeping your feed up because you have all that historical content and data that's out there. And with that being said, I think there's a lot of optimizations that you all could do around tweaking your description, tweaking the name if you feel like you wanna focus on more things there. But, really, I think there's a lot of value there in just going into, like, kinda keyword research around your topics and around, yeah, who your listeners are, what they're searching for, what the value you're adding in.

Jacob Bozarth [00:40:08]:
And I think, again, that's where your analytics and the different topics, like, can tell a story, you know, if the episode on podcasting gets to, like, the least amount of downloads, right, like, a lot of your listeners may not be interested in podcasting, but they also may be. That's just an example. So I think you all probably already know, like, what those topics are that your listeners are really, really interested in. And, again, I think that's where, like, the social promotion on yeah. The promotion on social media, the video grams, the clips, and stuff like that can be insightful as well. Which ones get the most engagement, which ones get the most comments, That type of thing. Spotify does now have, like, polls that you can do and, like, comments, which is really cool. I think that's something that's great.

Jacob Bozarth [00:40:47]:
Historically, it was like I remember whenever Apple was, like, the most popular arguably listening directory, and we would get reviews on our podcast, and we would just have to, like, there's no way to respond to them, you know, and there's no way to, like, engage or interact. And so, yeah, I think that that would be the biggest thing I would say is, like, you could do a survey. You know, you probably already have an email list of a lot of people, stuff like that. I think that that could be a great way of, hey, we're thinking about revamping our podcast or we're doing an end of year kind of listener feedback survey. You'll be entered to win, I don't know, whatever you wanna give away. And I think that can be a really helpful tool. And then, you know, even offering to, like, set up some calls from time to time. I know that's been helpful for us of just, like, getting that feedback from the listeners.

Jacob Bozarth [00:41:31]:
What would they like to hear more of? What would they like to hear less of and why?

Davy [00:41:35]:
Yeah. For sure. Well, one more topic I wanna cover real quick, monetization of podcasts. You know, people ask about podcasting in general, but I feel like one of the questions that always comes up is, like, hey, is there a return from the content itself? You know, Zencastr relatively recently, has rolled out all sorts of, like, ad insertion features. I know Riverside already has those as well. So lots of different ways to monetize your podcast. For somebody who's just getting started with that, what would you recommend?

Jacob Bozarth [00:42:04]:
Yeah. I would recommend putting that out of sight and out of mind if possible.

Davy [00:42:09]:
Okay. Yeah.

Jacob Bozarth [00:42:10]:
Now with that being said, I think, yeah, there are a lot of great ways, and that's I would say, yeah, still kind of a friction piece for a lot of lot of people in the podcast industry and one of the least, like, mature kind of pieces of of technology and, like, service offerings and and, like, solutions for people to find. I think that's something we realized even at Resonate Recordings. Like, we're working with, like we worked with 3,500 podcasters, and we're mostly doing post production services for them, helping them get launched. We're missing out on a big opportunity there of, like, that could be a network of, like, a lot of ad swaps and, like, monetization. And that that arguably is, like, one of the biggest questions that people ask us. Right? It's like, they start getting a lot of downloads, and then they're like, how do I monetize? What do I do? What's the different options there? How do I go about this? And so I think, again, kinda determine is this answer is determined by, like, what are your goals? What are the goals for the podcast? Right? If you're a business yeah. If you already have an existing business and it's more of a branded podcast, like, you're probably not gonna do ads. You're probably not gonna monetize.

Jacob Bozarth [00:43:13]:
Right? You're looking at the podcast more of it as like a how you would look at a blog. Right? It's like, hey. This is adding value, lead generation tool, getting things in. So there's I feel like a lot of just ways that people don't really think about monetization. They want the podcast to directly make them money, but they don't realize, like, maybe that just generated, like, 50 new leads to your business, which resulted in, like, a hundred million, you know, you know, or a million dollars in in revenue. Right? There's just a lot of immeasurables there, and I would say that that was I've experienced that, right, with Resonate recordings. We had an ad on Up and Vanish, which is a true crime show. And, like, we got so much business from that.

Jacob Bozarth [00:43:57]:
It wasn't even technically an ad, but, like, we got so much business from that. And so and, yeah, that was, like, that wasn't our podcast directly. But same thing with culpable was another show that we did internally, actually. Like, I was one of the executive producers on that. And culpable, like, hit number one in Apple Podcasts. And at the end of it, you know, it's like this show is produced by Resonate Recordings and Tenderfoot TV. And we got a lot of just organic growth and organic traffic there that was not measurable. Now culpable, we had a distribution partner in Tenderfoot that we were able to monetize it, and they sold a ton of ads on it and stuff like that.

Jacob Bozarth [00:44:30]:
But typically, until you get to the kind of that, like, probably 20,000 downloads per episode, Mark, there's not a ton of opportunity for you to monetize it in and of yourself. And so I would say, again, kind of if you have a specific niche that you know you might get a sponsor for. Right? Let's say I have a podcast on podcasting, and it's, like, really technical, and I'm talking into more like audio engineers and stuff like that. Right? Well, I may only have a thousand downloads per episode, but I could probably go to someone like a road or a sure or an avid or even a Resound. Right? And, like, I have their demographic. I have their target audience captive listening a thousand people. And so it's you're gonna get a much higher they might sponsor the entire podcast, sponsor the entire episode. Right? You all do a great job with your sponsors of, like, a lot of most of the people listening to your podcast probably have a business and a website and, like, with Badao is it Badao? Is that right? Sorry.

Jacob Bozarth [00:45:29]:
I used it when it was called Sumo more. But, yeah, like, you know, everybody could benefit from that that's listening to your podcast. And so it's a very, very hyper focused, like, you're it's it's like the sniper approach rather than just the shotgun. Whereas, like, on these true crime podcasts, the CPMs they're paying are are much lower, but it's like, you know, they're shooting the the net so wide because it's millions of listeners. So it's like Blue Apron, like Sleep Number, like all these, like, anyone in the like, most people in the world would listen to that. So I think it's really important to kind of know your audience and know, like, what that looks like. But I would say to start, yeah, if you can not have ads and just focus on providing value to a unique niche of people, a unique group of people, and providing unique value, that's gonna be what's gonna help you be successful. And then monetization is gonna be something that comes as, like, kind of a an added benefit down the road.

Jacob Bozarth [00:46:27]:
Right? If you're providing value to your listeners, your podcast is gonna grow. You're gonna build a a loyal audience and people that enjoy your content. And so whenever you start telling them about whatever you're telling them about, you're gonna have built that trust and sense of, like, loyalty to you, right, they're gonna feel that. So So whenever you start telling them about whatever product or whatever different thing you're using or you're recommending, right, it's gonna do well. And as you grow that, yeah, that's gonna be kinda like a a side thing that comes along the way. And sometime and, like, more than likely, if you do that, you're gonna have sponsors that they're gonna come to you organically over time. But I would say start, like, start with your your connection and your network. And if you can find someone that can kinda, like, sponsor the show.

Jacob Bozarth [00:47:14]:
I mean, there's so many different ways you can go about monetizing it. You could put it behind a paywall. Like, some people will do, like, exclusive content, you know, where you can add, hey, sign up for my Patreon and, like, you can get the extended content or you get this, like, additional feed that's, like, only available to our our, like, community, you know? And I think podcasting has proven to be a very, very effective way to build in a community and to to allow that, you know, there's there's so many other things we could go into on the community piece around podcasting. And I think that's one of the unique things. It, like, provides a sense of community. People feel like feel a sense of connection with the host. The host feels a sense connection there, and then the listeners feel a sense of connection to each other sometimes. And there's been a lot of really cool communities built around podcasts to really help a specific purpose to do good in the world, you know, from solving crimes to making a difference and impact in some pretty amazing ways.

Davy [00:48:11]:
So Yeah. Well, Jacob, I appreciate you ask are you coming on the show? And let me ask you a wide ranging questions about podcasting, even getting some feedback on our own podcast. Where can people follow along if they wanna connect with you?

Jacob Bozarth [00:48:26]:
Yeah. Definitely go to podcastprimer.com. There's several different options on there. You can check out my podcast operating system template through Notion. I think it's really important to have have a tool that kind of helps keep you you and your team organized in the process of podcasting, so that's kinda what that is. And there's also, like I said, I offer a free consult on there. So if you wanna just, you know, schedule thirty minutes with me and chat about your podcast or the technology or maybe some guidance that you or your team needs, feel free to do that on there. And we'd love to connect with you.

Davy [00:48:57]:
Awesome. And if you check out the show notes, we'll link to all of those resources. And if you're thinking about starting a podcast in 2025 or beyond, definitely check out podcast primer and reach out to Jacob for help. Thanks, Jacob.

Jacob Bozarth [00:49:10]:
Thanks so much, baby.

Davy [00:49:12]:
Thanks for tuning in to the brands of book show. If you enjoyed this episode, please consider subscribing, leaving a review on Apple Podcasts, and sharing this episode with others. For show notes and other resources, head on over to daveyandkrista.com.

Projects/Barely, But Here/Media Publishing/Transcripts/Sample_Transcript.txt

Sample_Transcript


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# Transcript_Template

Processing Status: Template
Transcript File: Sample_Transcript.txt
Assets Completed: 10 SEO tags, Blog post draft, Chapters, Description, Show notes, Social posts, Thumbnail prompt, Title, YouTube description
Assets Mapping Notes: Derived assets from the full transcript. Chapters inferred from topical pivots and time cues. Social Media copy adapted for LinkedIn, X, Instagram, and Threads. Metadata aligns to primary keyword.
Assets Plan: 10 SEO tags, Blog post draft, Chapters, Description, Show notes, Social posts, Thumbnail prompt, Title, YouTube description
Audience Segment: Adults 18 and older. People living with depression or mental health issues. Could be a mental health practitioner, or a family member of someone who has a person in their life who may need help
Source: Paste

# Prompts

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# Transcripts

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# Awareness Content

All material for this Post

Projects/Barely, But Here/Media Publishing/Transcripts/Transcript_Template 2f5ffa30cf0b80828505c69f668c8106.md

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# Versioned Voice Tuning Log

Processing Status: Parsing
Titles: SEO/Blog: Versioned Voice Tuning Log
Transcript Text: Versioned Voice Tuning Log

Building a local, private voice clone without burning my time (or my data)

For years I’ve wanted a way to think out loud and have it turn into something usable. Not just a transcript, but a real artifact I could shape, edit, and publish. Typing has always felt like a speed limit. Speaking doesn’t.

Recently, I built a fully local audio-to-text pipeline on macOS using native GPU tools. That system now works. It’s fast, private, and costs nothing to run. Once that was stable, a new question emerged naturally:

If I can go from voice → text locally, can I go from text → my voice just as cleanly?

That question led me into voice cloning. Not as a product idea. Not as a demo. As a personal tool — one that respects privacy, judgment, and intent.

What follows isn’t a tutorial. It’s a log. A record of how I’m tuning a system in the open, one version at a time.

The constraint that mattered most

Privacy wasn’t a feature. It was the constraint.

I wasn’t interested in cloud services, subscriptions, or uploading years of my voice to someone else’s servers. I wanted the same philosophy I used for transcription:

• Local
• Offline
• Explicit control
• Nothing happens unless I choose it

That constraint immediately shaped the stack and ruled out most commercial options.

Version 0.1 — Proof of life

The first goal was simple: Can a local model produce audio that sounds vaguely like me?

Using an open-source multilingual TTS model running locally, I generated my first test file. Technically, it worked. Emotionally, it didn’t.

The voice was metallic. Slightly cartoonish. Too fast. Too high. It sounded like a narrator doing an impression of me.

That was expected — and useful. At this stage, the question wasn’t “Is this good?” It was:

What knob actually matters?

Version 0.2 — Speed and pacing

The first obvious issue was speed. Spoken words were coming out too fast, with no breathing room. That was easy to fix. Slowing the model down helped immediately.

Adding pauses helped more. Transcripts don’t naturally contain breath. Speech does. Simple text preprocessing to insert space between phrases made a noticeable difference.

Result: better pacing. Still not me.

Version 0.3 — Pitch reality check

The next issue was pitch. The output consistently sounded too high — almost falsetto — even when the rhythm felt right.

Instead of guessing, I measured.

I took my original voice recordings, split them into chunks, and analyzed the pitch using phonetics tools. The data was consistent: my speaking voice sits roughly in the 130–140 Hz range. Deep tenor. No mystery there.

That confirmed something important: the source audio wasn’t the problem. The model was drifting upward.

I experimented briefly with post-processing pitch correction. It helped technically — but identity suffered. The voice moved closer in frequency but further away in feel.

That was the first hard lesson:

You can’t fix identity downstream.

Version 0.4 — Anchor quality over everything

At this point, the pattern was clear. No amount of tweaking speed, pitch, or filters would solve the core issue if the anchor voice wasn’t right.

I went back to the beginning.

The original anchor audio I fed the system was short. Clean, but short. Technically valid, but emotionally thin.

So I recorded a longer segment — 30 minutes — and listened to it carefully for the first time. That alone revealed problems: uneven loudness, inconsistent energy, moments I wouldn’t want the system to learn from.

I’m now preparing a new 8–10 minute anchor, deliberately recorded, leveled, and representative of how I actually sound when I’m thinking, not performing.

This is the moment where most people rush ahead. I’m doing the opposite.

The mental model that’s emerging

This process mirrors something I’ve seen repeatedly in software design:

• You don’t automate instability
• You don’t optimize confusion
• You don’t tune outputs before understanding inputs

Voice cloning turns out to be less about AI and more about restraint.

Right now, the system works. It’s fast. It’s local. It’s free. But it’s not finished — because it doesn’t yet feel like me.

That’s okay.

This log exists so I can track decisions, roll back when needed, and keep judgment in the loop. When it locks in, I’ll know — and when it does, the automation will follow.
Audience Segment: Adults 18 and older. People living with depression or mental health issues. Could be a mental health practitioner, or a family member of someone who has a person in their life who may need help
Episode: Versioned Voice Tuning Log (../Episodes/Versioned%20Voice%20Tuning%20Log%202f5ffa30cf0b8080a5a7e572b3f3fb22.md)
Source: Paste

Projects/Barely, But Here/Media Publishing/Transcripts/Versioned Voice Tuning Log 2f5ffa30cf0b802d9ac5de66fadcce12.md

Versioned Voice Tuning Log


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Building a local, private voice clone without burning my time (or my data)

For years I’ve wanted a way to think out loud and have it turn into something usable. Not just a transcript, but a real artifact I could shape, edit, and publish. Typing has always felt like a speed limit. Speaking doesn’t.

Recently, I built a fully local audio-to-text pipeline on macOS using native GPU tools. That system now works. It’s fast, private, and costs nothing to run. Once that was stable, a new question emerged naturally:

If I can go from voice → text locally, can I go from text → my voice just as cleanly?

That question led me into voice cloning. Not as a product idea. Not as a demo. As a personal tool — one that respects privacy, judgment, and intent.

What follows isn’t a tutorial. It’s a log. A record of how I’m tuning a system in the open, one version at a time.

The constraint that mattered most

Privacy wasn’t a feature. It was the constraint.

I wasn’t interested in cloud services, subscriptions, or uploading years of my voice to someone else’s servers. I wanted the same philosophy I used for transcription:

• Local
• Offline
• Explicit control
• Nothing happens unless I choose it

That constraint immediately shaped the stack and ruled out most commercial options.

Version 0.1 — Proof of life

The first goal was simple: Can a local model produce audio that sounds vaguely like me?

Using an open-source multilingual TTS model running locally, I generated my first test file. Technically, it worked. Emotionally, it didn’t.

The voice was metallic. Slightly cartoonish. Too fast. Too high. It sounded like a narrator doing an impression of me.

That was expected — and useful. At this stage, the question wasn’t “Is this good?” It was:

What knob actually matters?

Version 0.2 — Speed and pacing

The first obvious issue was speed. Spoken words were coming out too fast, with no breathing room. That was easy to fix. Slowing the model down helped immediately.

Adding pauses helped more. Transcripts don’t naturally contain breath. Speech does. Simple text preprocessing to insert space between phrases made a noticeable difference.

Result: better pacing. Still not me.

Version 0.3 — Pitch reality check

The next issue was pitch. The output consistently sounded too high — almost falsetto — even when the rhythm felt right.

Instead of guessing, I measured.

I took my original voice recordings, split them into chunks, and analyzed the pitch using phonetics tools. The data was consistent: my speaking voice sits roughly in the 130–140 Hz range. Deep tenor. No mystery there.

That confirmed something important: the source audio wasn’t the problem. The model was drifting upward.

I experimented briefly with post-processing pitch correction. It helped technically — but identity suffered. The voice moved closer in frequency but further away in feel.

That was the first hard lesson:

You can’t fix identity downstream.

Version 0.4 — Anchor quality over everything

At this point, the pattern was clear. No amount of tweaking speed, pitch, or filters would solve the core issue if the anchor voice wasn’t right.

I went back to the beginning.

The original anchor audio I fed the system was short. Clean, but short. Technically valid, but emotionally thin.

So I recorded a longer segment — 30 minutes — and listened to it carefully for the first time. That alone revealed problems: uneven loudness, inconsistent energy, moments I wouldn’t want the system to learn from.

I’m now preparing a new 8–10 minute anchor, deliberately recorded, leveled, and representative of how I actually sound when I’m thinking, not performing.

This is the moment where most people rush ahead. I’m doing the opposite.

The mental model that’s emerging

This process mirrors something I’ve seen repeatedly in software design:

• You don’t automate instability
• You don’t optimize confusion
• You don’t tune outputs before understanding inputs

Voice cloning turns out to be less about AI and more about restraint.

Right now, the system works. It’s fast. It’s local. It’s free. But it’s not finished — because it doesn’t yet feel like me.

That’s okay.

This log exists so I can track decisions, roll back when needed, and keep judgment in the loop. When it locks in, I’ll know — and when it does, the automation will follow."
Losing Agency Part 3,Losing Agency Post 03 (Episodes/Losing%20Agency%20Post%2003%202f7ffa30cf0b80dfb2e4dcceeeb0518d.csv),Ready,Paste,,,,,

Projects/Barely, But Here/Media Publishing/Transcripts 299ffa30cf0b817eb368f1dbebf6c4e5.csv