[00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:14.440] All right, it's going and first question, can you describe what it feels like to want [00:00:14.440 --> 00:00:37.400] it to stop but not necessarily die? It is a heavy feeling, it is very, how do I say it? [00:00:37.400 --> 00:00:44.400] It's not tunnel vision, but it's like a horse having blinders on. You can only see in wonder [00:00:44.400 --> 00:01:00.520] direction and that is making it stop and making it stop with obviously suicide being [00:01:00.520 --> 00:01:20.920] attractive option because it's all about making it just stop. And let's see, texture is really [00:01:20.920 --> 00:01:32.600] unpleasant texture. The way I describe what it's like to want it to stop, I explain it [00:01:32.600 --> 00:01:46.040] to others using the metaphor of being on the tilt the world at the county fair and you [00:01:46.040 --> 00:01:57.600] are stuck on the ride. You cannot get off, not only can you not get off, it doesn't stop [00:01:57.600 --> 00:02:11.280] spinning and rotating and going on and on and on. So it is so persistent in beating over [00:02:11.280 --> 00:02:22.960] your head, you just want it to stop. Next question, what kind of thoughts come up when you're [00:02:22.960 --> 00:02:33.080] in that state? For example, if I didn't wake up tomorrow at yz, I just want out, I don't [00:02:33.080 --> 00:02:46.560] care what happens. Yes, those three statements are very valid. The main thought is getting [00:02:46.560 --> 00:03:01.260] it to end and that is the prime directive. What I can tell you is that when you're in [00:03:01.260 --> 00:03:07.940] the ideation, you're thinking about nothing else. I mean literally nothing else. If you [00:03:07.940 --> 00:03:25.020] think about something outside your own suffering, that's a major deal. And you're so focused [00:03:25.020 --> 00:03:34.220] on the suffering and making it end, you're not thinking about if your knee is sore or [00:03:34.220 --> 00:03:42.980] you got a cold or anything else, it doesn't matter. You're only focused on making it end. [00:03:42.980 --> 00:03:57.620] I sometimes explain that for family members who have someone in this situation that when [00:03:57.620 --> 00:04:07.500] you're in that mindset of wanting to make it stop, you don't think about family, you [00:04:07.500 --> 00:04:13.900] don't think about friends. Like I said, you don't even think about your own exit, you [00:04:13.900 --> 00:04:19.380] don't think about your existence, you think about making it stop. Like I say, it's the [00:04:19.380 --> 00:04:35.580] only focus. It's as if make it stop, I don't care how you do it, it's got to stop. Next [00:04:35.580 --> 00:04:45.500] question. Is there a difference for you between thinking about dying and not wanting to exist? [00:04:45.500 --> 00:05:02.460] How do I separate or define them? Let me think about this for a moment. Thinking about dying [00:05:02.460 --> 00:05:12.980] and not wanting to exist. I would say, yes, for me personally, there is a difference and [00:05:12.980 --> 00:05:21.460] that takes me on a side thing. I would say everyone's experience of depression or every [00:05:21.460 --> 00:05:29.620] depressed person has their own unique flavor of depression. It's on a spectrum, just like [00:05:29.620 --> 00:05:36.540] any other mental disorder. You have people that are impacted mildly and you have people [00:05:36.540 --> 00:05:49.060] who cannot function and everything in between. In my experience, the difference between thinking [00:05:49.060 --> 00:06:06.900] about dying and not wanting to exist, the difference is the dying and not existing, [00:06:06.900 --> 00:06:18.500] both serve the same purpose, which is the remains to an end and that is just making [00:06:18.500 --> 00:06:32.020] the pain stop. Additionally, they're not wanting to exist. You get this feeling of [00:06:32.020 --> 00:06:44.300] just wanting to disappear. It's when the nihilism kicks in because when you get the nihilism, [00:06:44.300 --> 00:06:55.700] you pretty much don't care about a damn thing and would essentially take a bullet, do whatever. [00:06:55.700 --> 00:07:09.100] It doesn't matter. You just do not care. Next question. Do you remember your first experience [00:07:09.100 --> 00:07:25.660] of that kind of thought? Personally, the first time I dealt with this was almost 40 years [00:07:25.660 --> 00:07:44.340] of the day ago. I was 16 years old, sophomore in high school, really confused. I didn't [00:07:44.340 --> 00:07:58.540] know that I was depressed. I just had this continuing feeling of just wanting to make [00:07:58.540 --> 00:08:07.460] the feeling I had inside your way. I had a lot of trauma and anxiety through my childhood [00:08:07.460 --> 00:08:18.700] and all the way through my teen years into my adult life. The anxiety and the always [00:08:18.700 --> 00:08:25.780] feeling on edge and never feeling like you could relax was like being on a hamster and [00:08:25.780 --> 00:08:37.340] a wheel. Being on the tilt-a-whirl, except it was anxiety. I did not tell anyone. I didn't [00:08:37.340 --> 00:08:45.900] tell my parents. I didn't tell friends. I didn't tell a soul. I had a suicide attempt [00:08:45.900 --> 00:08:59.580] at that age at 16. I was in the kitchen. Nobody was at home. I got home early from school. [00:08:59.580 --> 00:09:07.340] My parents had a drawer full of nives, steak knives, carving knives, all kinds of knives. [00:09:07.340 --> 00:09:16.860] If you need a knife, that's the drawer. In there was this serrated blade. It had to be [00:09:16.860 --> 00:09:25.460] at least one foot long blade, the time you'd use for carving a turkey. On the end, it had [00:09:25.460 --> 00:09:34.700] this almost like a forked tongue where after you sliced it, you could sort of poke it with [00:09:34.700 --> 00:09:45.580] the end. It was like the end of a spear. I put that plastic handle up against the wall [00:09:45.580 --> 00:09:53.220] or rather up against the edge of the kitchen sink and stood there with it aimed at just [00:09:53.220 --> 00:10:04.620] above the belly button. The idea was I was going to step forward and that was it. I was [00:10:04.620 --> 00:10:13.420] about to carry through with it when something outside of me interrupted me. I don't know [00:10:13.420 --> 00:10:24.580] what it was. I don't know how it happened, but something intervened and let me continue [00:10:24.580 --> 00:10:42.380] my life. 40 years later, here I am. Now, the last part of the question is, did I understand [00:10:42.380 --> 00:10:55.220] it at the time? I didn't understand it at the time. I didn't know what was going on. I [00:10:55.220 --> 00:11:03.180] didn't know what depression was. I knew I was nervous all the time. That was the word [00:11:03.180 --> 00:11:13.380] I knew and he was nervous. I didn't even know the word anxiety. To admit you had a mental [00:11:13.380 --> 00:11:20.300] health problem like that, you may as well get out the straight jacket, put it on me [00:11:20.300 --> 00:11:30.980] and get me in the padded room because the stigma for acknowledging your mental illness [00:11:30.980 --> 00:11:48.020] or talking about it was just ridiculous. Yeah, and there was no support. I couldn't even [00:11:48.020 --> 00:11:59.420] talk to my mom about it. Let's see. Nice question. What stops me from acting on those [00:11:59.420 --> 00:12:13.060] thoughts? Is it a person of feeling, fear, guilt, hope, curiosity? Okay, now this, like [00:12:13.060 --> 00:12:24.620] I mentioned before, with the spectrum of depression, this, the answer to this is likely going to [00:12:24.620 --> 00:12:36.260] be different for different people. For example, mine, the thing that stops me is thinking [00:12:36.260 --> 00:12:53.460] about my boys who are young men and I have to be able to bear my pain until the universe [00:12:53.460 --> 00:13:04.340] decides it's time to go. Not me. Plus, I don't want to miss out on how awesome they're going [00:13:04.340 --> 00:13:26.180] to turn out to be. So, it's a person/people. Feeling of, yes, feeling when you think about [00:13:26.180 --> 00:13:38.340] those people. No fear. I'm not, I'm not a scared of anything. Actually quite calm. The guilt [00:13:38.340 --> 00:13:47.580] does come on thinking forward. You project forward in time and at least I do and I play [00:13:47.580 --> 00:13:55.420] out the hypothetical of, you know, different scenarios of what it's like for my boys to [00:13:55.420 --> 00:14:06.860] deal with that and it's, I just don't want to pass my suffering and burden on to them. [00:14:06.860 --> 00:14:19.100] They didn't sign up for that, but apparently I signed up for mine. So here it is. Question [00:14:19.100 --> 00:14:36.980] six. What do you wish people knew about this kind of suicidal thinking? That, for those, [00:14:36.980 --> 00:14:48.140] I think for anyone who is contemplating taking their own life, like I said, there's this [00:14:48.140 --> 00:14:56.940] tunnel vision, narrow ability to see what's in front of you and all you see is suffering [00:14:56.940 --> 00:15:05.180] and you're thinking, I've just got to make this end because it's too long. It's too deep. [00:15:05.180 --> 00:15:15.500] It hurts too much. It just fucking hurts psychologically. It is beyond psychological. [00:15:15.500 --> 00:15:21.580] You do feel it in your body. You feel tired as hell. You don't want to get up. You have [00:15:21.580 --> 00:15:28.780] no motivation to do anything because the nihilism kicks in. You're basically signed [00:15:28.780 --> 00:15:40.580] out. And for those that have never felt it, I want you to know you never do want to feel [00:15:40.580 --> 00:15:55.380] it. It's one of the most cognitively dissident things you can do, which is try to hold the [00:15:55.380 --> 00:16:08.820] idea of staying alive with the idea of taking your own life. And that creates cognitive [00:16:08.820 --> 00:16:24.100] dissonance. At least it does for me. I would also say for those people that ultimately [00:16:24.100 --> 00:16:35.060] do take their own lives to end their pain and suffering, the one thing I can tell people [00:16:35.060 --> 00:16:47.940] who have never felt it or if you're a family member is the person was only focused on [00:16:47.940 --> 00:16:58.460] ending their pain. That is it. There's solely one prime directive and there's really nothing [00:16:58.460 --> 00:17:22.020] else you see. And I'm incredibly sorry for your loss. I know how heartbreaking it is. [00:17:22.020 --> 00:17:32.260] Number 7, if I were sitting across from someone feeling this way, what would you say? Not [00:17:32.260 --> 00:17:45.580] as advice just as someone who understands. I would say I know what the dark is like. [00:17:45.580 --> 00:18:01.780] I know what never ending feels like. I know what it's like to live the same day over 700 [00:18:01.780 --> 00:18:22.260] days in a row. I'd let them know that they aren't alone because not just the ideation [00:18:22.260 --> 00:18:31.220] but the depression itself is just massively isolated. You're not really wanting to connect [00:18:31.220 --> 00:18:51.060] with anyone. You're wanting to keep your distance. I'd say as much as what you feel [00:18:51.060 --> 00:19:08.740] right now sucks really bad and I know that I feel you. However, I have found that when [00:19:08.740 --> 00:19:26.820] I'm inside the worst of my mental cyclones or tornadoes that at some point the intensity, [00:19:26.820 --> 00:19:40.740] the pressure, the overwhelming sense of escape settles down just like a storm would. And [00:19:40.740 --> 00:19:52.860] I use storm and weather metaphors to help communicate to others what it's like to live [00:19:52.860 --> 00:20:02.900] with it as long as I have. For example, my depression might hit me one afternoon like [00:20:02.900 --> 00:20:12.460] the rainstorm coming in and it will hang out until, I don't know, half a week. It'd be [00:20:12.460 --> 00:20:21.820] more and it'll be persistent. It will feel never ending. And when I met the peak of those [00:20:21.820 --> 00:20:38.040] three days, I do want to take a step off the edge and just go right where I know things [00:20:38.040 --> 00:20:51.000] will come to an end. However, in that space, I continuously remind myself that I am in [00:20:51.000 --> 00:21:07.680] a storm right now and I just got to ride it out. It will break and it does. It does break. [00:21:07.680 --> 00:21:26.320] I think that answers all the questions. The other thing I would add is that some depressed [00:21:26.320 --> 00:21:37.960] people not all depressed people feel invisible and the ones that feel invisible, like nobody [00:21:37.960 --> 00:21:45.720] sees them or they're pain. They just want to be acknowledged. They want somebody to [00:21:45.720 --> 00:21:53.080] see them in their pain and not discount their pain, not tell them that they just need to [00:21:53.080 --> 00:22:03.120] cheer up. Stop being so sad. Those were ones that I loved. Anyhow, I'm going to end it [00:22:03.120 --> 00:22:13.680] here for 22 minutes of this. I believe I've given you sufficient material, maybe for more [00:22:13.680 --> 00:22:20.680] than one episode. Maybe there's a part one, a part two, I don't know. But you will once [00:22:20.680 --> 00:22:34.360] you see all this. The last thing I will say is I, at this moment, I'm thoroughly exhausted [00:22:34.360 --> 00:23:00.500] from both expressing my heartfelt reality and also the intensity of it because answering [00:23:00.500 --> 00:23:11.300] those questions. For some, like you mentioned in your note back to me, some were automatic [00:23:11.300 --> 00:23:22.220] because the experience was heavily processed, heavily lived, or I would say it was a cyclical [00:23:22.220 --> 00:23:33.020] repeated experience. So not only will depression come and go like weather systems, but it [00:23:33.020 --> 00:23:44.560] would also have obviously lots of variability depending on other factors going on. Not all [00:23:44.560 --> 00:23:53.440] depression storms are the same. They don't last the same. Some may be more deeper than [00:23:53.440 --> 00:24:10.060] others. And because I've done the work, I know that different mental storms of depression [00:24:10.060 --> 00:24:20.480] will have a different root cause. In other words, they might be attached to a childhood [00:24:20.480 --> 00:24:30.140] trauma, whereas the other one is attached to having to go through my divorce after 20 [00:24:30.140 --> 00:24:42.520] plus years of marriage. So the root causes can be vastly different. But the feeling of [00:24:42.520 --> 00:24:53.580] depression is the same. And I think that's how it differs from, you know, oh, I feel [00:24:53.580 --> 00:25:08.060] a quote unquote, sad is depression is like a McDonald's or a Starbucks. Everyone you [00:25:08.060 --> 00:25:20.660] go to is going to have that similar vibe. You know, the Mickey D's is in a different [00:25:20.660 --> 00:25:43.500] place, but it's just a different vibe. I'm going to stop because I'm driving the car [00:25:43.500 --> 00:25:44.540] back to the house.