Feb 21, 2018 1:33:45 PM (Read by you after 1 hour, 17 minutes, 46 seconds) +18056371315

About Trump (a clear synopsis of the situation):

Feb 21, 2018 1:33:54 PM (Read by you after 1 hour, 17 minutes, 37 seconds) +18056371315

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/18/opinion/trump-russia-putin.html

Feb 21, 2018 2:51:51 PM Me

I read that the other day and it's absolutely spot on in my opinion

Aug 29, 2018 10:34:28 AM (Read by them after 25 minutes, 10 seconds) Me

Hi Jo, contacting you about this weekend. Darragh and I are at a soccer tournament in Simi Valley this weekend. Our Saturday game gets done about 3:15pm and our Sunday morning game needs us back at the field at 9:15am. Here is the location of the field we’re playing at: 5005 E Los Angeles Ave, Simi Valley, CA 93063

Aug 29, 2018 10:34:37 AM (Read by them after 25 minutes, 8 seconds) Me

I wonder how close that is to you? What is your address?

Aug 29, 2018 10:34:55 AM (Read by them after 25 minutes, 9 seconds) Me

Trying to figure out what we’re doing this weekend. 😊

Aug 29, 2018 12:07:05 PM +18056371315

We’re at 3861 Poppyseed Lane, Calabasas, 91302. I think we’re about 20 minutes away from there.

Aug 29, 2018 12:08:25 PM +18056371315

I work Saturday till about 7 pm, but will be home after that (and will happily leave cot and sheets out for you guys.

Aug 29, 2018 12:09:21 PM (Read by them after 1 second) Me

Cool. Looks like you’re ~30 mins from the field. We’re 1:15 without traffic. That would get us 45mins more sleep on Sunday 😊

Aug 29, 2018 12:11:29 PM Me

If you and David are ok with it we would like to come stay with you guys.

Aug 29, 2018 12:27:34 PM (Read by you after 5 hours, 12 minutes, 6 seconds) +18056371315

Of course! We’d be delighted! I’ll leave the cot and sheets out for you. David will be home on Saturday, so just call or come by.

Aug 29, 2018 3:07:16 PM (Read by you after 2 hours, 32 minutes, 24 seconds) +18056371315

Bring your swim suits!

Aug 29, 2018 5:54:51 PM (Read by you after 18 hours, 12 minutes, 14 seconds) +18056371315

Bring your swim suits!

Aug 30, 2018 12:35:20 PM (Read by them after 2 seconds) Me

Cool! We will bring our suits. Thanks for hosting us!

Aug 30, 2018 12:55:20 PM +18056371315

Can’t wait!

Aug 31, 2018 9:32:24 PM (Read by you after 11 minutes, 38 seconds) +18056371315

Would you mind bringing a couple pillows with you tomorrow? I realized when we downsized, we got rid of all extraneous pillows! We have sheets and everything else.

Aug 31, 2018 9:44:08 PM Me

K

Aug 31, 2018 9:45:36 PM (Read by you after 8 hours, 46 minutes, 32 seconds) +18056371315

Great, thanks! David will be here when you arrive and I should be home by 7 pm...see you tomorrow!

Sep 01, 2018 6:26:33 PM (Read by you after 43 seconds) +18056371315

Please make yourself at home. Eat the rainbow cake that’s there! It was made by Carolyn Riley (a great baker)!

Sep 01, 2018 6:26:49 PM (Read by you after 27 seconds) +18056371315

I will try to be home by 7!

Sep 01, 2018 6:26:58 PM (Read by you after 18 seconds) +18056371315

What are your plans for dinner?

Sep 01, 2018 6:27:52 PM Me

We dont have any

Sep 01, 2018 6:29:32 PM +18056371315

If I don’t get home till 7:30 or so, is that too late for Darragh for dinner?

Sep 01, 2018 6:29:55 PM Me

No

Sep 01, 2018 6:29:59 PM +18056371315

If so, there are 2 pizzas in freezer. Please help yourself.

Sep 01, 2018 6:30:24 PM +18056371315

In that case, meet you at Stacked? Or some other place you and D would like?

Sep 01, 2018 6:31:04 PM +18056371315

Has David shown you pool and how to use TV remote? I hope he’s being nice and helpful (or is he deep into his video games)?

Sep 01, 2018 6:31:43 PM Me

We are driving there

Sep 01, 2018 6:32:05 PM +18056371315

Call me if David is being a hermit.

Sep 01, 2018 6:32:23 PM Me

Btw it's darragh so my dad doesn't crash

Sep 01, 2018 6:34:46 PM +18056371315

Good thinking, Darragh! Very responsible of you. You had me thinking it was your dad. 😊 Call me if you need anything once you get to my place and I’ll meet you guys for dinner wherever you prefer. There’s also pizza and food in the fridge. Please make yourself at home and eat/drink whatever is there.

Sep 01, 2018 6:46:56 PM Me

What unit?

Sep 01, 2018 6:47:10 PM +18056371315

G

Sep 01, 2018 6:47:17 PM Me

Ok

Sep 01, 2018 6:48:03 PM +18056371315

On Meadow Creek Lane, we are on opposite side of street from Ceanothus St...something like that.

Sep 01, 2018 6:48:38 PM Me

We're at your building based on the address you gave us but are trying to find the unit

Sep 01, 2018 6:48:48 PM +18056371315

I forget the name of the cross street, but our building is on Meadow Creek Lane.

Sep 01, 2018 7:09:38 PM Me

Darragh says stacked

Sep 01, 2018 7:10:26 PM Me

Do you want to come here and go in one car? Or is it faster for you to meet us there. Just let me know

Sep 01, 2018 7:14:47 PM +18056371315

Just left work. Be in TO in about an hour. Want to meet at Stacked, somewhere else, or eat at my place?

Sep 01, 2018 7:49:12 PM (Read by you after 44 seconds) +18056371315

Faster to meet at stacked

Sep 01, 2018 7:50:26 PM +18056371315

I can be there by 7:20

Sep 01, 2018 7:50:26 PM Me

Ok when should we leave here

Sep 01, 2018 7:50:43 PM Me

K

Sep 01, 2018 8:09:33 PM Me

We're leaving now 👍

Sep 01, 2018 8:10:57 PM (Read by you after 21 minutes, 7 seconds) +18056371315

Perfect!

Sep 01, 2018 8:11:13 PM (Read by you after 20 minutes, 51 seconds) +18056371315

I’m 2 minutes away.

Sep 01, 2018 8:14:54 PM (Read by you after 17 minutes, 10 seconds) +18056371315

Don’t rush. I just put our name in and they said the table will be ready at 7:30.

Sep 01, 2018 8:15:06 PM (Read by you after 16 minutes, 58 seconds) +18056371315

Table is under “Jo”

Sep 01, 2018 8:27:29 PM (Read by you after 4 minutes, 35 seconds) +18056371315

Just making a purchase at J. Jill. Will be right there.

Sep 01, 2018 8:32:13 PM Me

We're here

Sep 01, 2018 8:32:24 PM Me

Just parked

Sep 01, 2018 8:33:00 PM +18056371315

Perfect! They just texted to say table is ready.

Sep 01, 2018 8:33:24 PM +18056371315

Just finishing my purchase. Almost there!! Just ask for the table for Jo

Sep 02, 2018 9:59:57 AM (Read by you after 4 minutes, 10 seconds) +18056371315

Starbucks just texted to say order is ready.

Sep 02, 2018 10:04:23 AM Me

We got it thank you so much for breakfast! :-)

Sep 02, 2018 10:05:26 AM +18056371315

Great! My pleasure...so nice to see you guys!

Jun 24, 2019 11:47:35 AM (Read by you after 35 minutes, 40 seconds) +18056371315

Bert, so sorry about earlier (the noise) I’m at Kaiser in Woodland Hills with David (who is getting a colonoscopy). What can I do to help you and Liz? Is there anyone I can call? How are the boys taking it? I’m sending my love to all of you. Let me know if there’s anything I can do. ❤️❤️❤️

Jun 24, 2019 12:35:32 PM Me

Hi Joanna, I think we’re good at the moment. if there is anything I will ask

Jun 24, 2019 12:38:29 PM Me

we’ve not told boys yet

Jun 24, 2019 12:38:38 PM Me

They don’t know

Jun 24, 2019 12:39:03 PM +18056371315

Ok, please give Liz, Sherry, Laura, and Sallie a hug from me. Ok, I won’t say anything of course. ❤️

Jun 24, 2019 12:39:12 PM Me

Ok

Jun 24, 2019 12:39:25 PM +18056371315

😘

Jun 24, 2019 12:40:44 PM Me

We’re all in shock. Even tho he had his challenges with the wheelchair, etc

Jun 24, 2019 12:42:15 PM +18056371315

There is no way to not be shocked by the death of a parent. No matter how prepared we think we are, we are never truly ready to deal with this loss.

Jun 24, 2019 12:42:58 PM Me

True. Makes me think a lot about my own parents

Jun 24, 2019 12:43:50 PM +18056371315

I can imagine. It reminds us to say the things we want to say while we still can.

Jun 24, 2019 12:44:43 PM +18056371315

It also brings up our own mortality...and thoughts of making sure we’re living the life we will be glad we lived.

Jun 24, 2019 12:44:54 PM Me

Yes

Jun 24, 2019 12:46:09 PM +18056371315

On that note, David and I love you, Bert, we love Liz, the boys, Sherry, Sallie, and the whole family. ❤️

Jun 24, 2019 12:48:30 PM Me

Elizabeth wants to hear David say those words 😁

Jun 24, 2019 12:49:07 PM +18056371315

She may be waiting a while.

Jun 24, 2019 12:49:15 PM +18056371315

But he feels them.

Jun 24, 2019 12:52:29 PM Me

She said she totally gets that.

Jun 24, 2019 12:53:08 PM +18056371315

Google translation needs to offer British to American English translation. When David says: “Everything is ticketeeboo, I’ll see you anon,” the translation is “I love you.” 😊 Google needs a translation service for Liz too.

Jun 24, 2019 12:53:57 PM Me

Haha

Jun 24, 2019 12:54:14 PM +18056371315

Liz: “Get away from me, I don’t do hugs. What’s wrong with you?!” Translation: “I love you.”

Jun 24, 2019 12:54:24 PM Me

Haha haha

Jun 24, 2019 12:56:39 PM +18056371315

Can you create an app to translate Liz to standard English? Or to translate English English to American English? How hard would that be to create?

Jun 24, 2019 12:59:51 PM Me

You could make one for fun I didn’t really translate anything. To build one that actually would. Would require a ton of work actually

Jun 24, 2019 1:05:06 PM Me

I hate speech to text

Jun 24, 2019 1:18:49 PM +18056371315

I was thinking just for fun. But that’s ok...you and I can just translate for Liz and David. We have a lot of experience doing so.

Jun 24, 2019 1:25:26 PM +18056371315

David: “I’m going to go play some video games.” Translation: “The emotions I’m unable to process or express have once again built up to levels where I must take action to dissipate them by releasing endorphins...and since I don’t exercise, I will attempt to cope by going into this dark room here and participating in virtual exercise in the form of pressing buttons on a keypad. I will see you in 4-6 hours, after which I will be feeling much better and will be ready to eat one of the three foods I am constitutionally able to consume (bread, cheese pizza, or a potato). Cheerio!”

Jun 25, 2019 8:01:27 PM (Read by you after 15 hours, 26 minutes, 45 seconds) +18056371315

If Liz is too engrossed in fleecing everyone at the poker table, would you happen to have a moment to get a few photos of the group tonight and send some to me? If you’re busy working, no worries.

Jun 26, 2019 11:28:41 AM (Read by them after 2 hours, 25 minutes, 51 seconds) Me

Hi Jo! I didn’t see this until this morning. I think Liz took a photo of us all last night. Did she send it to you?

Jun 26, 2019 11:28:47 AM (Read by them after 2 hours, 25 minutes, 45 seconds) Me

Hope you are doing well.

Jun 26, 2019 1:56:55 PM (Read by you after 7 seconds) +18056371315

Yes, thanks Bert! David had such a good time last night...thanks for hosting. Hope you guys are all doing ok.

Jun 26, 2019 1:58:03 PM Me

So far today is ok. Everyone’s been so busy since it happened. It’s hard to gauge how people are processing their grief.

Jun 26, 2019 2:00:09 PM Me

That’s actually a concern of mine. People unable to fully process their grief and keep it bottled up.

Jun 26, 2019 2:07:46 PM +18056371315

I think being together and feeling loved is the best tonic there is.

Jun 26, 2019 2:08:59 PM Me

Yes. Agreed

Jun 26, 2019 2:09:01 PM +18056371315

When people know that you’re there for them and they can talk with you anytime, it helps. People deal with death in their own time and their own way.

Jun 26, 2019 2:09:30 PM Me

Imagine you’ve counseled many thru this

Jun 26, 2019 2:10:07 PM Me

Feel like we’ve been distracting ourselves

Jun 26, 2019 2:10:22 PM +18056371315

Yes, and grief is really one of the most difficult things (for me) to work with.

Jun 26, 2019 2:10:24 PM Me

But maybe that’s just my take

Jun 26, 2019 2:11:06 PM +18056371315

That’s ok, there are many ways to get through this. Was Liz with Nat when he died?

Jun 26, 2019 2:11:56 PM Me

It’s hard because no one likes being in the space. Feelings of guilt and regret can make you feel like shit, and no one wants that

Jun 26, 2019 2:12:47 PM Me

I told kids to focus on fun, positive memories of grandpa

Jun 26, 2019 2:12:53 PM +18056371315

It’s amazing how frequently feelings of regret and guilt come up. It’s almost like the brain wants to feel those emotions instead of the sadness of loss.

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Jun 26, 2019 2:13:27 PM Me

Liz, to my knowledge, was not there. He died before she got there, she was on her way

Jun 26, 2019 2:13:51 PM Me

You’re right

Jun 26, 2019 2:13:51 PM +18056371315

Is she doing ok, do you think?

Jun 26, 2019 2:14:05 PM Me

She’s staying busy

Jun 26, 2019 2:14:18 PM Me

I think that’s how she’s dealing

Jun 26, 2019 2:14:47 PM Me

I saw her eyes red on Monday, but have not seen her cry.

Jun 26, 2019 2:14:51 PM +18056371315

Does she want to hang out today? Maybe go to the beach? Or anywhere?

Jun 26, 2019 2:15:04 PM +18056371315

Or tomorrow?

Jun 26, 2019 2:15:26 PM Me

There’s no way she’s not going to cry.

Jun 26, 2019 2:15:34 PM +18056371315

I’ll text her and ask...

Jun 26, 2019 2:16:44 PM Me

She rode horses this morning (good for her), then just finished swimming, I’m at Rainbow waiting to see if she wants to come by.

Jun 26, 2019 2:17:00 PM Me

Pickup boys from camp at 2.

Jun 26, 2019 2:17:36 PM Me

Darragh has soccer tonight in Ventura. She’s going to run, and I’m picking her up on the way

Jun 26, 2019 2:17:49 PM Me

She’s in heavy trading mode right now

Jun 26, 2019 2:18:15 PM +18056371315

How about dinner somewhere this week with your family, Sherry, Sallie and me? Like Pappa Lennon’s? I would love for all of you to come here, but it’s along drive for you.

Jun 26, 2019 2:19:06 PM +18056371315

If it’s ok with you, I’m going to ask her if she wants to meet in Ventura during Darragh’s soccer game.

Jun 26, 2019 2:20:32 PM (Read by them after 1 second) Me

We were talking last night about having a dinner/gathering with just the core group of us. The public celebration happens late August at Harvard-Westlake in Los Angeles.

Jun 26, 2019 2:20:43 PM Me

date TBD

Jun 26, 2019 2:21:36 PM Me

I was going to talk with her today about picking a time to do it. Once she does that Derick and Molly offered to help coordinate things here to get invites, setup etc.

Jun 26, 2019 2:21:50 PM Me

She only has to decide when, and who she wants there.

Jun 26, 2019 2:22:14 PM +18056371315

Oh good.

Jun 26, 2019 2:22:18 PM Me

I feel its VERY important for us to do that. All of us

Jun 26, 2019 2:22:26 PM +18056371315

I agree.

Jun 26, 2019 2:22:29 PM (Read by them after 1 second) Me

If only out of respect to Nat.

Jun 26, 2019 2:22:40 PM Me

Who we all know was so awesome on so many levels

Jun 26, 2019 2:23:00 PM +18056371315

So true.

Jun 26, 2019 2:23:10 PM (Read by them after 1 second) Me

I have to admit, I’ve been holding it in too.

Jun 26, 2019 2:23:15 PM Me

I just started crying

Jun 26, 2019 2:23:20 PM Me

in public of alll places

Jun 26, 2019 2:23:57 PM Me

ok, composure slightly regained here..

Jun 26, 2019 2:24:01 PM (Read by you after 2 seconds) +18056371315

It’s natural.

Jun 26, 2019 2:24:06 PM Me

yep

Jun 26, 2019 2:24:15 PM (Read by you after 1 second) +18056371315

No need to feel you have to remain composed.

Jun 26, 2019 2:24:28 PM Me

so let me hang with her today. I really didn’t see her at all yesterday except for poker

Jun 26, 2019 2:24:49 PM Me

Are you free tomorrow?

Jun 26, 2019 2:24:52 PM +18056371315

He was a big part of all our lives. He welcomed us int his life and made us feel loved.

Jun 26, 2019 2:25:06 PM +18056371315

Yes, I’m free tomorrow.

Jun 26, 2019 2:25:21 PM Me

She may have time to hang tomorrow. I know she has training, and horses, but beyond that I dont think anything else

Jun 26, 2019 2:25:33 PM +18056371315

Of course, please hang with her. I already texted her but tell her to ignore it.

Jun 26, 2019 2:25:36 PM Me

she may have a big bike ride tomorrow

Jun 26, 2019 2:25:49 PM Me

today its running

Jun 26, 2019 2:25:54 PM (Read by you after 1 minute, 37 seconds) +18056371315

I’ll check in with her tomorrow.

Jun 26, 2019 2:26:15 PM (Read by you after 1 minute, 16 seconds) +18056371315

Got it. Training might really be helpful right now.

Jun 26, 2019 2:27:40 PM (Read by them after 41 minutes, 24 seconds) Me

ok, sounds good.

Jun 26, 2019 2:27:55 PM (Read by them after 41 minutes, 9 seconds) Me

Thanks for texting with me. I typically dont get this chatty

Jun 26, 2019 3:09:34 PM (Read by you after 6 seconds) +18056371315

My pleasure...I love chatty.

Aug 17, 2019 11:04:22 AM Me

Hi Joanna! Wanted to let you know that we are at wildflower Park just north of the Oaks mall at Darragh‘s soccer tournament today and tomorrow. Liz is going to meet us for lunch after 12 noon today. Darragh‘s first game is at 10:40 AM, and his second game is at 4 PM. Not sure if we can connect but I wanted to reach out and let you know that we’re here

Aug 17, 2019 2:20:33 PM (Read by you after 7 minutes, 25 seconds) +18056371315

Ooooo....thanks for letting me know! If I get my work done in time, I’ll head over.

Aug 17, 2019 2:28:46 PM Me

Cool! We’re just wrapping up lunch at Stacked in the Oaks

Aug 17, 2019 2:29:09 PM Me

Liz, Sallie, and Declan are here now too

Aug 17, 2019 2:30:41 PM Me

We’re here tomorrow as well. Sun 11:40am kickoff

Aug 17, 2019 3:05:55 PM +18056371315

I work in SB all day tomorrow. 😟

May 01, 2020 4:49:10 PM Me

Hi Joanna! Thanks for the birthday wishes!

May 01, 2020 4:51:47 PM Me

Wanted to let you know I am so very sorry about hearing the passing of your mom. I’ve been so caught up and been busy lately plus this whole pandemic thing, and I didn’t take time to stop and reach out. I apologize for the delay in sending my condolences. It’s never easy to lose someone you love, even when you may know that it’s coming. The one thing I hope is that you and your sister feel better knowing your mom is at peace and not suffering. Plus she’s probably out partying and dancing with Party Marty right now!!! Be well Joanna!!!

May 01, 2020 4:55:59 PM +18056371315

Thank you so much, Bert, and don’t worry at all...I know how stressed out and busy we all are these days...I really appreciate your words though. And yes, you are right, she’s no longer suffering and I like to think of her having fun with my dad and reunited with her own mom and dad whom she adored. I hope you’re able to enjoy your birthday despite not being able to go out. Here’s hoping your evening involves cake, a beer, and some good food in the comfort of your own home. Please give Liz and the boys a big hug from me. I miss you all!! ❤️

May 01, 2020 4:57:32 PM +18056371315

I hope you liked the homage to our former “Primetime Live!” watching days!

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May 01, 2020 5:24:13 PM (Read by you after 8 minutes, 20 seconds) +18056371315

I hope you liked the homage to our former “Primetime Live!” watching days!

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May 01, 2020 5:24:20 PM (Read by you after 8 minutes, 13 seconds) +18056371315

Thank you so much, Bert, and don’t worry at all...I know how stressed out and busy we all are these days...I really appreciate your words though. And yes, you are right, she’s no longer suffering and I like to think of her having fun with my dad and reunited with her own mom and dad whom she adored. I hope you’re able to enjoy your birthday despite not being able to go out. Here’s hoping your evening involves cake, a beer, and some good food in the comfort of your own home. Please give Liz and the boys a big hug from me. I miss you all!! ❤️

Jul 14, 2020 11:35:04 AM (Read by them after 42 minutes, 55 seconds) Me

Hi Joanna!!! I hope you’re well! Hope all is going ok during these weird times. I was remembering radio from a while back and remember this show and can’t remember the name. He was the guy who told stories and sounded like he was very far away and had jazz music in the background. I cannot for the life of me remember what his name was.

Jul 14, 2020 11:35:10 AM (Read by them after 42 minutes, 49 seconds) Me

Do you remember his name?

Jul 19, 2020 12:46:32 AM (Read by them after 2 seconds) Me

joefrankmovie

Jul 19, 2020 12:49:06 AM (Read by you after 5 seconds) +18056371315

Joe Frank!!

Jul 19, 2020 12:49:31 AM +18056371315

I looked this up when you first texted but I couldn’t find anything (or remember the name)!

Jul 19, 2020 12:49:34 AM Me

a few shows here:

Jul 19, 2020 12:49:38 AM (Read by them after 1 second) Me

KCRW

Jul 19, 2020 12:49:50 AM +18056371315

But I totally knew who you were talking about!

Jul 19, 2020 12:50:08 AM Me

then on youtube. hearing it again takes me back to mid 90’s LA

Jul 19, 2020 12:50:12 AM (Read by them after 1 second) Me

YouTube

Jul 19, 2020 12:50:30 AM +18056371315

I can’t wait to listen to these.

Jul 19, 2020 12:50:30 AM (Read by them after 1 second) Me

YouTube

Jul 19, 2020 12:50:44 AM +18056371315

Thanks for sending them!!

Jul 19, 2020 12:51:11 AM +18056371315

He had such a unique Twilight Zone-like voice.

Jul 19, 2020 12:51:22 AM Me

the distant phone voice, the music... going to listen outside on the porch

Jul 19, 2020 12:52:09 AM (Read by them after 2 seconds) Me

here’s a scene from the documentary which I am for sure going to watch. This tells how ge go the sound just so with his voice:

Jul 19, 2020 12:52:13 AM (Read by them after 1 second) Me

YouTube

Jul 19, 2020 12:53:06 AM (Read by you after 11 seconds) +18056371315

I’m going to watch all of these...thank so much Bert! And thanks for remembering!! How did you finally remember?

Jul 19, 2020 12:53:23 AM Me

just fell into my head

Jul 19, 2020 12:53:34 AM +18056371315

Love it when that happens!

Jul 19, 2020 12:53:43 AM Me

wow. sound of his voice is SO powerful on my brain

Jul 19, 2020 12:54:09 AM (Read by you after 1 second) +18056371315

Yes, his voice just evokes a feeling...

Jul 19, 2020 12:57:38 AM (Read by them after 1 second) Me

just rented it on Amazon Video, cant wait to watch!@

Jul 19, 2020 12:57:52 AM Me

Glad I could rekindle your love of his work

Jul 19, 2020 12:58:55 AM (Read by you after 5 minutes, 19 seconds) +18056371315

You definitely have! Thank Bert! Love and big hugs to all of you. 😘 ❤️❤️❤️

Jun 27, 2021 2:47:51 PM (Read by you after 23 minutes, 45 seconds) +18056371315

Thank you so much for keeping us all up to date…this is so exciting!!!!

Jun 27, 2021 2:48:30 PM (Read by you after 23 minutes, 6 seconds) +18056371315

Jun 27, 2021 2:49:30 PM (Read by you after 22 minutes, 6 seconds) +18056371315

Jun 27, 2021 2:49:31 PM (Read by you after 22 minutes, 5 seconds) +18056371315

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Jun 27, 2021 5:42:59 PM +18056371315

Jun 27, 2021 5:44:32 PM +18056371315

Jun 27, 2021 7:38:09 PM (Read by you after 8 seconds) +18056371315

Do you have video of her crossing the finish line?

Jun 27, 2021 7:38:30 PM Me

Yes but we’re in Ac cooling down

Jun 27, 2021 7:38:53 PM +18056371315

Ok, thanks…amazing, amazing job. Both of you.

Nov 16, 2021 8:40:38 AM Me

This is Jason Lewis

Nov 16, 2021 8:40:42 AM Me

YouTube

Nov 16, 2021 8:41:45 AM Me

This is Jody Hutton Binaural Beats

Nov 16, 2021 8:41:52 AM Me

YouTube

Nov 16, 2021 8:59:11 AM Me

The first guy does isochronic tones

Nov 16, 2021 9:33:10 AM (Read by you after 25 minutes, 29 seconds) +18056371315

Thanks so much Bert, safe travels.

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Nov 16, 2021 9:59:34 AM Me

Thanks for the ride and the book recommendation! Good to see you and peanut!

Nov 16, 2021 9:59:43 AM Me

About to blast off

Nov 16, 2021 10:03:54 AM +18056371315

Good to see you too. Thank you for your ADHD recommendations.

Nov 16, 2021 10:04:20 AM +18056371315

Stay safe and well. See you soon.

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Nov 21, 2021 9:40:40 PM Me

Nov 21, 2021 9:43:04 PM (Read by you after 22 hours, 22 minutes, 43 seconds) +18056371315

Ha ha! Lol!

Nov 21, 2021 9:44:26 PM (Read by you after 22 hours, 21 minutes, 21 seconds) +18056371315

How’s everything going? Hope you and D are having a good time reconnecting. This pandemic has been so hard on everyone…I’m glad you finally get to see each other.

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Nov 22, 2021 8:08:00 PM Me

Things are good. His kids are very entertaining: Willow is 6 and Lily is 3. It reminds me when the boys were little

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Nov 28, 2021 3:40:35 PM +18056371315

Just emailed you back. Please don’t worry about the car! I will make sure it gets done!

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Nov 28, 2021 3:40:46 PM +18056371315

Here is the free lecture I mentioned in the email…

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Nov 28, 2021 3:40:52 PM +18056371315

https://landinghub.pesi.com/en-us/bh_w_047325_thebodykeepsthescore_sq

Nov 28, 2021 3:41:12 PM Me

Nov 28, 2021 3:42:11 PM Me

Listening right now

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Dec 19, 2021 7:35:34 AM Me

Hi Jo! Hope you are well!! I fly In tomorrow and land in SB at 1:30. Any chance you could pick me up? 😬 no worries if not 😀

Dec 19, 2021 11:24:05 AM (Read by you after 54 minutes, 37 seconds) +18056371315

I’m afraid I can’t tomorrow. 😟

Dec 19, 2021 11:24:38 AM (Read by you after 54 minutes, 4 seconds) +18056371315

I’m so sorry. Hope you have a smooth and safe flight.

Dec 19, 2021 12:23:53 PM Me

No worries

Dec 19, 2021 12:24:08 PM Me

Hope to see you sometime over the holidays!

Dec 19, 2021 12:24:08 PM Me

Darrell and I are hiking in Boulder we just got done climbing Green mountain, 8,200ft

Dec 19, 2021 12:24:12 PM Me

Unable to locate attachment: 66163437038__A6192C7B-3B53-44A3-BA3B-FA5ED8223D95.HEIC.jpeg

Dec 19, 2021 3:04:05 PM +18056371315

So beautiful. What’s the name of the town you’re in?

Dec 19, 2021 3:05:21 PM Me

We were in Boulder, CO hiking. Darrell lives in Longmont, co About 15 miles north

Dec 19, 2021 3:12:50 PM +18056371315

How lucky…it looks like paradise.

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Jan 14, 2022 7:42:50 PM (Read by them after 1 second) Me

Hi Joanna, here is the interview of the pilot commander. If you scroll down to Lex’s first comment you’ll see he’s timestamped all the different parts of the conversation (4 hours!)

Jan 14, 2022 7:42:56 PM Me

YouTube

Jan 14, 2022 7:44:19 PM (Read by them after 1 second) Me

Lex has a great channel as I said. This link shows his MOST popular videos. The one above is the most watched,

Jan 14, 2022 7:44:22 PM (Read by them after 1 second) Me

YouTube

Jan 14, 2022 7:47:06 PM Me

This interview also incredible. Jamie Metzl is an author specializing in topics of genetic engineering, biotechnology, and geopolitics. Incredible conversation about COVID, China, and details of what went down in the early stages—super interesting since we’re living through what happened:

Jan 14, 2022 7:47:09 PM (Read by them after 1 second) Me

YouTube

Jan 14, 2022 7:48:30 PM Me

This is the documentary you MUST watch.“Unacknowledged” (2017)

Jan 14, 2022 7:48:33 PM Me

IMDb

Jan 14, 2022 7:49:06 PM (Read by them after 2 seconds) Me

YouTube

Jan 14, 2022 9:45:59 PM (Read by you after 3 hours, 1 minute, 8 seconds) +18056371315

Thanks Bert. I better not go down the UFO rabbit hole too far. I’m pretty sure I’d land in a QAnon chat room talking to Roger Stone.

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Jan 15, 2022 12:47:20 AM (Read by them after 1 second) Me

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Jan 17, 2022 2:00:23 PM (Read by them after 1 second) Me

Twitter

Jan 17, 2022 2:03:47 PM (Read by you after 4 minutes, 24 seconds) +18056371315

Wow...he’s 60! Time passes quickly for all of us.

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Jan 17, 2022 2:15:47 PM (Read by you after 26 minutes, 35 seconds) +18056371315

I keep seeing cPTSD in the media these days. This article on Joss Whedon references it...and the way he himself is described is possibly reminiscent of BPD, I think...

Jan 17, 2022 2:15:57 PM (Read by you after 26 minutes, 25 seconds) +18056371315

The Daily Beast

Jan 17, 2022 2:42:37 PM Me

👀

Apr 07, 2022 6:01:23 PM Me

Hi Jo! I'm in New York at Dales house. He said he sent a friend request to you on Facebook. He said you should jump on a plane and come hang out. 😁

Apr 07, 2022 6:30:39 PM (Read by you after 15 hours, 33 minutes, 4 seconds) +18056371315

I’ll accept the friend request when I’m next on Facebook! Say hi for me! I’m so glad you get to see him! How is your dad doing? Better, I hope. Hope you are well too.

May 01, 2022 11:38:21 PM (Read by you after 9 hours, 49 minutes, 52 seconds) +18056371315

Happy Birthday, Bert!

May 02, 2022 9:28:33 AM (Read by them after 57 minutes, 48 seconds) Me

Thank you Jo! I hope you’re doing well and things are good.

May 02, 2022 12:19:29 PM +18056371315

Thanks Bert, I hope you enjoyed your day yesterday.

May 03, 2022 6:25:34 PM Me

I did thanks!

May 11, 2022 10:37:21 AM (Read by them after 4 hours, 2 minutes, 37 seconds) Me

Hi Joanna! For my Mom XL (says she’ll likely wear it over what she has on. My dad would be 2XL. Hope this helps.

May 11, 2022 10:37:32 AM (Read by them after 4 hours, 2 minutes, 26 seconds) Me

Let me know if you have any questions.

May 11, 2022 2:41:26 PM (Read by you after 3 minutes, 59 seconds) +18056371315

Thank you Bert! And for you?

May 11, 2022 2:48:45 PM Me

Large please

May 11, 2022 2:48:53 PM Me

thank you

May 11, 2022 3:09:14 PM +18056371315

Thanks Bert!!

Jun 02, 2022 1:32:55 AM (Read by you after 18 minutes, 26 seconds) +18056371315

Bert, would you have time to make a music CD for Declan’s party (or do you have some CDs I could borrow)? Also, do you think people would be willing to do an at-home Covid test the day of the party?

Jun 02, 2022 1:53:46 AM Me

Hi Jo! Good to hear from you. I can help out for sure. A CD? Why not just stream it?

Jun 02, 2022 1:54:40 AM Me

Also, I think ppl would be fine taking a test for the party.

Jun 02, 2022 1:55:06 AM Me

Are you in Ojai?

Jun 02, 2022 2:08:18 AM (Read by you after 46 minutes, 44 seconds) +18056371315

I don’t have Spotify (I’m not sure how to stream music), but if you can bring whatever we need to stream, that would be great! Ok, great (about testing)...will you take care of getting your peeps tested (kids, parents, Perrys), and I’ll talk with Sherry and Sallie and see if they’re on board. Yes, I’m back here in Ojai.

Jun 02, 2022 2:58:17 AM Me

I have Spotify, no worries. We do have tests here and can get more if needed I think at health center. I didn’t know you were hosting the party, that’s so kind of you! In case my parents ask what are details?

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Jun 02, 2022 3:00:51 AM Me

Can’t sleep 👀

Jun 02, 2022 3:03:40 AM (Read by you after 3 hours, 58 minutes, 59 seconds) +18056371315

I can never sleep, so I feel your pain!

Jun 02, 2022 3:04:57 AM (Read by you after 3 hours, 57 minutes, 42 seconds) +18056371315

I hope you can fall asleep soon. The deets for your parents are that the party is here at 306 Shady lane at around 8:15 pm or 8:30 pm on June 10 (a Friday I think), right after Declan’s graduation ceremony.

Jun 02, 2022 3:07:34 AM (Read by you after 3 hours, 55 minutes, 5 seconds) +18056371315

More deets: it will be outside, so people should dress warmly (I only have 2 outside heaters, so I recommend coats and warm attire if the night is cool…which usually it is). Due to Covid, it will be 100% outside. I’m not sure what the details are about hosting. Liz said she wanted to do everything, and just wanted to hold it here. So I haven’t planned for food or drinks…but am happy to do that, just let me know!

Jun 02, 2022 3:08:51 AM (Read by you after 3 hours, 53 minutes, 48 seconds) +18056371315

That’s great that all the testing is there at Thacher! It will hopefully make it easy for everyone to get a rapid test on the 10th.

Jun 02, 2022 7:04:12 AM Me

Thanks for the info!

Jun 02, 2022 7:15:38 AM Me

Having a life changing hard time since returning. Liz hurts so badly and feeling helpless to make her feel better. Just feeling incredibly intense sadness and tears and hurt for her. I love her so much this is more hurt than I’ve ever faced. Finding it hard to not feel intense self loathing So hard to sleep.

Jun 02, 2022 8:36:55 AM +18056371315

The self loathing is just wasted energy...I can relate to that feeling completely, but I’ve realized that for me, it’s both a waste of time and also kinda narcissistic...too much time thinking about myself instead of others and how to help and connect with them. When I’m in that space, I try to remind myself that whatever positive qualities I wish I had, are all attainable, if I just keep plugging along and working on it. So if you can, try to channel the negative thoughts into something positive.

Jun 02, 2022 8:41:43 AM (Read by you after 11 minutes, 55 seconds) +18056371315

For example, when I’m beating myself up for having done something wrong, I remind myself that the reason I’m feeling that way is that I did something that’s not in keeping with my values...and that I can become more aware of that over time and live in a way that’s more in keeping with what matters to me most (which is having healthy, happy, balanced relationships with others).

Jun 02, 2022 9:26:15 AM Me

True. Thing is I was not of sound mind—unchecked major depressive disorder and anxiety. Add in alcohol and drugs and it’s toxic, and when I was in that headspace I just wanted to be validated, to know I’m not a worthless piece of 💩 as everyone and everything was informing me that I was crap. I was numbing myself to not feel the pain every day not knowing it would only tesult in more unimaginable pain for Liz. Been working for 11 months to get better ❤️‍🩹 so I can be better for those I love. Counseling, medication and meditation have all helped get me to a place where I can finally not feel depressed 24/7. Was feeling positive that I feel like I’m on my feet and stable for the first time since before Covid. Was looking forward to coming back after giving lots of space and time because it was asked for, Feeling failure to honor my wife and my vows and Be my best for her. I love no person as much as her and still do, even more every day since we’ve been married. She is my sunshine, my only sunshine… 😢 I wish I could go back and change the past so she didn’t experience this and feel hurt and violated. It hurts so much to see her in pain and putting up metaphorical walls to protect herself. K, I’ll stop my rambling. Just in a very sad and depressing headspace and since just coming out of it I’m scared I’m going to go back there very soon. Downright frightening to think of feeling like that again and being manipulated by it. Thanks again for your words, very kind of you. I’m sorry for hurting your best friend, and by extension hurting you. Sincerest of apologies.

Jun 02, 2022 11:16:29 AM (Read by them after 3 hours, 48 minutes, 48 seconds) Me

did you get my last text? it was a long one, but its green instead of blue

Jun 02, 2022 3:23:43 PM (Read by you after 27 minutes, 20 seconds) +18056371315

I just got it now (sorry, I went to asleep at last around 7 am, and turned my phone off…that’s why the message was green).

Jun 02, 2022 3:35:43 PM (Read by you after 15 minutes, 20 seconds) +18056371315

You don’t owe me an apology, only Liz. My guess is that one of the best things you could do for the relationship, is to earnestly try, every day, to seek reassurance and validation only within yourself, not from her. Observe yourself wanting it from her or others, acknowledge feeling that way, and then make a conscious decision to seek that from within yourself. Otherwise, you’ll be riding in the passenger seat (of your own self esteem) indefinitely. But it goes without saying that whatever you and your therapist are working on, follow that path. I’m an outside person and don’t really know what’s best. I’m projecting my own stuff here, which may not be helpful. But I’ve found that seeking validation from others, let alone primarily just one person, is always just a temporary fix. Like an addict taking one more hit, and then another, in order to feel good just for a little while. The only way to find peace (for me) was to break the addiction and look inside.

Jun 02, 2022 3:38:19 PM (Read by you after 12 minutes, 44 seconds) +18056371315

And I realized that asking others to do for me what I needed to do for myself was (in my case) putting what I needed before what they needed…which wasn’t working in my life.

Jun 02, 2022 4:04:27 PM (Read by them after 1 second) Me

Wow. Joanna, that is some really insightful sharing. THANK YOU! One of my largest challenges is that I never learned healthy conflict resolution as a child so I’m really lost when it comes to bringing up issues to discuss and resolve them. It was never modeled for me as a kid, and there wasn’t anyone in my life teaching me. That deficiency is compounded by what you describe above combined with marginal self esteem seeking that outside validation, only to not get it. That creates a confirmation bias for the internal critic who is on steroids with Depression telling you you are worthless, “see she doesn’t care about you, she pays no attention to you, you ARE worthless.” It’s a vicious cycle. I’ve been able to develop self-esteem, self-worth, practicing medication with self-love. Feels very foreign and weird at first—like you dont deserve it, but then it starts to feel natural. I meditate 3 x a day and reflect on myself and how to feel better and be better. I made a vow to Liz that I feel stronger about than the day I promised almost 23 years ago. I love her more now than ever. It just sucks to start feeling better and continue to feel suffering after being in a deep dark depression for years. Thank you for being my friend

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Jun 02, 2022 4:05:22 PM Me

Gotta go pickup Declan :-)

Jun 10, 2022 1:09:54 PM (Read by you after 1 hour, 3 minutes, 50 seconds) +18056371315

Jun 10, 2022 1:10:06 PM (Read by you after 8 minutes, 40 seconds) +18056371315

I tested negative…yay!

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Jun 10, 2022 1:21:49 PM +18056371315

When you have a chance, let me know how testing goes over there.

Jun 10, 2022 2:14:05 PM (Read by them after 1 second) Me

Will do. Parents are at the store. I have the tests here and we’ll do them when they get back

Jun 10, 2022 3:29:31 PM (Read by you after 1 hour, 21 minutes, 15 seconds) +18056371315

Thanks so much! I have ice coming btw. No need to get that.

Jun 10, 2022 4:51:16 PM Me

Letting you know that I was negative and my parents are negative. Going to test Darragh and Declan after getting drinks which I’m doing right now

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Jun 10, 2022 4:58:09 PM +18056371315

Thank you so much, Bert!!

Jun 11, 2022 12:32:48 PM (Read by you after 1 minute, 44 seconds) +18056371315

I’m going to be up at Thacher in a few minutes. Will you forgive me if I leave your drinks at the foot of your stairs? I’m goi g to try to catch the last 10-15 minutes of the garage sale!

Jun 11, 2022 12:34:41 PM Me

Ok

Jun 11, 2022 12:45:42 PM (Read by you after 50 minutes, 9 seconds) +18056371315

Jun 11, 2022 12:45:43 PM (Read by you after 50 minutes, 8 seconds) +18056371315

In the shade on your wall

Jun 11, 2022 7:54:20 PM +18056371315

Sherry and I are coming up to walk the dogs at around 7:45 pm tonight. Ok if we drop off a second load of drinks and food? And if you want to run Weston on the fields, then you can join us (and Koda can see Weston and you).

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Jun 11, 2022 7:55:45 PM +18056371315

No pressure, btw…I’m sure you may have more exciting plans with your folks. Only if you feel like running Weston and seeing the sunset.

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Jun 11, 2022 7:56:21 PM Me

Any escape from the “rents” is welcome

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Jun 11, 2022 7:56:35 PM Me

Remember just two weeks ago I finished living with them for three months

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Jun 11, 2022 7:56:48 PM Me

I love my parents but I’ve kind of had my fill

Jun 11, 2022 7:57:00 PM +18056371315

I get it.

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Jun 11, 2022 8:44:19 PM (Read by you after 3 hours, 28 minutes, 10 seconds) +18056371315

We’re at the gate and our code (2806) is being rejected. Did the gate code change?

Jun 11, 2022 8:46:34 PM (Read by you after 3 hours, 25 minutes, 55 seconds) +18056371315

We’re here! at the soccer field!

Jun 12, 2022 4:17:38 PM (Read by them after 4 seconds) Me

I read this today and in light of what we touched on last night. It is dark but powerful. I can assure you I do not entertain death for I am spring.

Jun 12, 2022 7:29:42 PM (Read by you after 5 minutes, 39 seconds) +18056371315

That’s a powerful poem. I think it helps to think about what makes you spring. What makes you want to be on planet earth for as long as possible. Sometimes in the dark moment it’s hard to remember. But friends, siblings, cousins, books, helping others, sunsets, music, poetry, art, and creativity are all on my list.

Jun 12, 2022 7:31:14 PM (Read by you after 4 minutes, 7 seconds) +18056371315

I am spring, not just by force of will, but for many good reasons.

Jun 13, 2022 10:46:22 AM (Read by them after 1 second) Me

I am spring for my family—and other things—but nothing brings me as much joy as my love for my family

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Jun 13, 2022 10:47:07 AM Me

In the deepest dark moments, that’s what always kept me here, and will continue to.

Jun 13, 2022 10:48:19 AM (Read by them after 1 second) Me

It was very hard to see it, but I did 😊

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Jun 14, 2022 1:24:48 PM (Read by you after 3 hours, 34 minutes, 57 seconds) +18056371315

Nothing brings me as much joy as my family and friends, too. Can you think of other things that bring you joy, purpose and meaning (in addition to your family)? Art? Drawing? Dancing? Music? Dogs? The natural beauty of planet Earth? The mysteries of science, nature and the stars? Or perhaps the very act of searching for greater meaning right now is in itself a joyful purpose? Bert, I don’t want to interfere with anything you and your therapist are working on — please ignore anything I say that doesn’t support what you’re already doing in therapy. I just want to help as a friend, if I can. For me, focusing outside myself helps. Also, creating a concrete list of distress tolerance skills that I can do at any hour of the day or night helps. Reading about “wise mind” (versus just the emotional mind or rational/logical mind) helps. And thinking about a greater purpose (what do I want to accomplish with this one life I’ve been given) helps. But what helps me is not as important as what helps you. Apart from your family, what helps *you*?

Jun 23, 2022 9:38:28 PM Me

Hi Jo, apologies for the delayed reply to this thread 😊 My reply is TLDR, but do, please read Other things that bring me joy; are the dogs, hiking, playing darts, painting, listening to music, and meditation. This past year focusing inside myself has been significant, for I now know that I am not my mind or body; I am the awareness inside them. That may come off as a bit "Ojai hippieish," but the awareness, spirit, energy/vibrations, whatever you want to call "the witness" to your life living in your mind and body is what I was able to see and understand clearly how my own mind-body-awareness connection has been running my life. Knowing this helps me immensely, and I've lived my entire life up until May not knowing that not just intellectually but in the act of deep meditation, I've been able to 'witness' it firsthand—it's a powerful way of being, and I'm still learning and exploring every day. Just 6 months ago, I was a different person, living in a constant state of high anxiety, not knowing where the most important relationship in my life was going (and honestly, I still don't know). I took off to be in NY with my parents for 3 months, and I returned a different person. I'm still Bert, but I'm not anxious 24/7, not easily triggered by old the lifelong tropes I've wrestled with my entire life. I processed the rage the angry young man inside me was still holding on to. All the anger and hate and shame I felt from my father's actions—the emotional, psychological, and physical trauma from when I was a kid—I've carried with me my entire life, and I put it down and let it go while in New York. Talking, EMDR, meditation, and one night my father yelled at me, and I yelled back at him like never before—he went silent and was stunned. All my rage and angst unleashed on him in a 30-second verbal onslaught. One of THE most cathartic experiences I've had. When I think about the past, it is in the past and has no power over me. Yeah, I know, that may sound like a crock of shit, but I lived it; I shifted. So this experience has helped me and continues every day, and I'm still unpacking it. Another thing that helps me every day is knowing my depression intimately. My lack of self-awareness allowed me to be manipulated by my clinically diseased mind and fall into a pit of deep depression and despair—however, from the outside, I was functioning marginally. My depression was lying to me for many years in the build-up to last summer. I was told I was shit, a total asshole loser, people at work don't like you, your kids hate you, you're a shit son to your parents, a crapass brother to Russ, you lost contact with all your friends because they hate you, Liz doesn't love you anymore, she doesn't talk to you, she hates you, no wonder she doesn't kiss you, hug you, touch you or want anything to do with you—it was unrelenting, day after day, for weeks, for months. I was seriously not mentally well, and in all honesty, I likely should have been hospitalized. I took the weak and easy way out by numbing myself with too much alcohol and weed. Anything to dull the mind and make the self-hate stop or lessen. It was horrible. So taking time to work on me, get sober, get stable, know my depression, and then discover borderline personality disorder has helped me and continues to. It helps me to know that I no longer carry the angst of my childhood to the detriment of me and those I love. It helps me to know that I'm aware of how my depression operates and have the resources and skills to manage flare-ups. It helps me to know that I no longer feel anxious to be alive. It helps me to feel enlightened, and I can drop into meditation anytime for any reason to help cultivate that feeling. I've been working very hard to improve myself, and ironically just like people could not see the self-inflicted internal mental suffering, they also can not see any improvement unless they spend time around me. OK, I'll stop now.

Jun 23, 2022 11:23:49 PM (Read by you after 14 minutes, 9 seconds) +18056371315

No need for apology…you never need to text back. I’m glad to hear about the things that give you joy (I’m really glad to hear you’re painting…that’s such great activity, and so soothing). The couple things I might add (if that’s ok) are: 1) Remember these things can take time. Almost no one can change completely in 6 months or even a year. (Nor would we want to.) The things we are working to improve in ourselves are often ongoing works-in-progress for most of us. 2) It can sometimes help to keep our intent and motivation in mind…and remind ourselves we are doing this for us, not for anyone or anything else. Not for secondary gain. That way, we never get “knocked off balance” (angry, sad, disappointed) if we feel we’re not getting what we thought these changes would bring us (praise or recognition from others in our lives). There was an example in a book I read that I loved. A guy gets a 1 year chip at AA (for a year of sobriety) and eagerly, proudly shows it to his wife. Rather than praise him, his wife (who has been disappointed by his previous relapses and doesn’t want to get her hopes up yet again) says “Big deal. Talk to me when you get the ten year chip, then I’ll believe this is real.” The husband gets so mad, he almost drinks again…but then he stops and thinks “I’m going to use this instead of letting it get me off track. I’m going to remember that I’m not doing sobriety for her approval, or to win her back, or for anyone else’s approval in my life. I’m doing recovery for me.” As usual, ignore anything that doesn’t support what you and your therapist are working on…these are just random, unfiltered, biased/personal thoughts…take them or leave them as needed.

Jun 27, 2022 6:21:04 PM (Read by them after 1 second) ⇲ Me

What you said makes complete sense, in fact until I could accept my own existence I was unable to self advocate. I was inside a diseased mind plain and simple. I wanted more numbness because why bother I’m not worth it. And this process of getting better and changing has been life long for me. I’ve had depression and anxiety my entire life and know I have to be vigilant with self care. I’ve had times in my life where I had no care, mental care when I was young to then get both medication and counseling over the past 30 years. And over the course of time the cycle of episodes have gotten darker and deeper each time. In the past if I had an episode come on and wasn’t in treatment or getting medication I would self advocate and take care of myself. Prior to going into the Covid mess I wasn’t on any psychiatric meds and I wasn’t getting any counseling and I was already in a darker space than I had ever been in before. I was in a dark freefall before I could save myself and then Covid hit and the drinking started. My mind was too diseased to save me. That being said, the change for me inside my skull sized kingdom over the past six months has been truly profound. I know because I experience it every day. Triggers are everywhere for me and lack of self awareness combined with automatic reactions create misery for me and all those around. looking back over the years I’m so sorry for what I put everyone through. It makes me sad to think how much mental disease affected my life and everyone around me because I wasn’t getting proper care. Anyhow… This is lovingly referred to as my “psychic stench” A dark force that emanates from my pores when I’m in a dark headspace. So back to the shift in this past six months, it’s noticeable to me because I’ve developed enough awareness to create a pause and choose how I react to things I have somehow gotten my nervous systems sensitivity “turned down” I believe it’s the meditation, because it’s the only thing I’ve never done in my past consistently. I’ve done years of medication and therapy but have still had that anxiety, that hum that goes through my nervous system that is ever present 24 seven 365. Not having the background hum in my nervous system allows me to feel “normal”as I’m not on alert already. This provides me enough time after a trigger to choose something other than the old worn out horrible habits. It was like riding a bike at first. I would still get triggered and react, but then I’d have a moment where I actually caught myself and chose something else. Overtime I’ve just gotten better at it in particular these past six months it’s been transformative for me. I feel as though I am the best version of myself that’s ever existed flaws and all. Without the flaws and the experience I wouldn’t have traveled the mental road I’ve been down to get me psychologically where I am today. It pains me to look back and see all the hurt I’ve caused, and I’m reminded of this every day. It’s taken me 53 years but I finally feel mentally balanced for the first time in my life. And I did it all for me.

Jun 27, 2022 6:24:07 PM (Read by them after 1 second) ⇲ Me

Also, just to be clear I am sorry if some thing I’ve typed or said makes you think I’m having dark thoughts. I’m not. I’m aok over here 👍😁 I think the medium of text misses any and all of the nuance that I’m trying to convey. Maybe I should send you a video of me talking then you get vocal nuance and facial expressions to help? 🤔

Jun 27, 2022 5:49:18 PM Me

😂 this made me think of you

Jun 27, 2022 5:49:20 PM (Read by them after 1 second) Me

https://www.instagram.com/accounts/login/?next=/p/CfHH9TuqAXC/

Jun 27, 2022 6:21:04 PM (Read by them after 1 second) ⇱ Me

What you said makes complete sense, in fact until I could accept my own existence I was unable to self advocate. I was inside a diseased mind plain and simple. I wanted more numbness because why bother I’m not worth it. And this process of getting better and changing has been life long for me. I’ve had depression and anxiety my entire life and know I have to be vigilant with self care. I’ve had times in my life where I had no care, mental care when I was young to then get both medication and counseling over the past 30 years. And over the course of time the cycle of episodes have gotten darker and deeper each time. In the past if I had an episode come on and wasn’t in treatment or getting medication I would self advocate and take care of myself. Prior to going into the Covid mess I wasn’t on any psychiatric meds and I wasn’t getting any counseling and I was already in a darker space than I had ever been in before. I was in a dark freefall before I could save myself and then Covid hit and the drinking started. My mind was too diseased to save me. That being said, the change for me inside my skull sized kingdom over the past six months has been truly profound. I know because I experience it every day. Triggers are everywhere for me and lack of self awareness combined with automatic reactions create misery for me and all those around. looking back over the years I’m so sorry for what I put everyone through. It makes me sad to think how much mental disease affected my life and everyone around me because I wasn’t getting proper care. Anyhow… This is lovingly referred to as my “psychic stench” A dark force that emanates from my pores when I’m in a dark headspace. So back to the shift in this past six months, it’s noticeable to me because I’ve developed enough awareness to create a pause and choose how I react to things I have somehow gotten my nervous systems sensitivity “turned down” I believe it’s the meditation, because it’s the only thing I’ve never done in my past consistently. I’ve done years of medication and therapy but have still had that anxiety, that hum that goes through my nervous system that is ever present 24 seven 365. Not having the background hum in my nervous system allows me to feel “normal”as I’m not on alert already. This provides me enough time after a trigger to choose something other than the old worn out horrible habits. It was like riding a bike at first. I would still get triggered and react, but then I’d have a moment where I actually caught myself and chose something else. Overtime I’ve just gotten better at it in particular these past six months it’s been transformative for me. I feel as though I am the best version of myself that’s ever existed flaws and all. Without the flaws and the experience I wouldn’t have traveled the mental road I’ve been down to get me psychologically where I am today. It pains me to look back and see all the hurt I’ve caused, and I’m reminded of this every day. It’s taken me 53 years but I finally feel mentally balanced for the first time in my life. And I did it all for me.
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Jun 27, 2022 6:24:07 PM (Read by them after 1 second) ⇱ Me

Also, just to be clear I am sorry if some thing I’ve typed or said makes you think I’m having dark thoughts. I’m not. I’m aok over here 👍😁 I think the medium of text misses any and all of the nuance that I’m trying to convey. Maybe I should send you a video of me talking then you get vocal nuance and facial expressions to help? 🤔
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Jun 27, 2022 10:46:59 PM (Read by you after 10 hours, 29 minutes, 54 seconds) +18056371315

I’m glad to hear you’re not having dark thoughts, and I hope they’ll never return. But just in case you have a friend or family member who might need them someday, it makes sense to add those 24/7 numbers to one’s phone (I have them in mine), from the local crisis line to the national suicide hotline.

Jul 04, 2022 9:33:41 PM ⇲ Me

I hear you 1000% And I’ll let you in on a little secret, the dark side never goes away, just like in Star Wars. It just regroups and comes back. With the perspective I have now I can ID 5 episodes on the severe/major scale used to evaluate ppl. And when I test I ring every bell hard, except the self harm. SUPER adverse to it actually, like squeamish. Anyhow I digress. I have my ppl that I reach out to when the dark side shows up. Honestly wouldn’t be texting u now without their help, words, wisdom and love. It’s what’s helped me keep my head above water

Jun 27, 2022 11:01:41 PM (Read by you after 10 hours, 15 minutes, 12 seconds) +18056371315

I’m going to step back from our texting, simply because I would never want to interfere with what you and your therapist are working on. Or stand in the way of you getting an actual therapist. I’ve been assuming you are seeing someone, but if you’re not, I really think it would be a good idea. Maybe someone who does EMDR and has worked extensively with BPD clients. Perhaps it would be good to run that online EMDR website by them and see what they say (my concern is that they may tell you what I’m thinking/worried about, which is that EMDR is only evidence-based if done in person). But I don’t know…someone trained in EMDR will know definitively. Either way, I want you to connect with a real, unbiased therapist and not get impressions from our texts that might be inaccurate or unhelpful. I also want to model healthy boundaries, and I worry if I get too involved in giving you text advice or support, I won’t be modeling that. It goes without saying that I’m wishing Liz and you whatever will make you happiest longterm, whatever that may be. If you need help finding a therapist, let me know…but calling your insurance to see who is on their panel is often a very good way to start…many therapists will not charge for an initial phone call (and that call can be a good way to see if their style and experience match what you’re looking for).

Jul 04, 2022 9:38:16 PM ⇲ Me

I completely respect where ur coming from. I take no offense and know u have everyone’s happiness and best interests at heart. My hope is that I did not make you feel obligated to use your superpowers with me. I respect you completely as a human, and again as a mental health pro. You’ve earned your stripes 🖖 so from now on you’ll get the occasional 🧠 question but I’ll just send u all the funny shit ppl share with me if ur kool with that?

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Jul 04, 2022 9:40:00 PM ⇲ Me

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I was recently introduced to the book of “Fallopians”

Jul 04, 2022 9:40:28 PM ⇲ Me

🤣

Jul 04, 2022 3:18:41 PM Me

Hi

Jul 04, 2022 3:18:54 PM Me

Just left hospital

Jul 04, 2022 3:19:38 PM (Read by you after 1 second) +18056371315

Thanks Bert. I’ll head up in a second. Hope you had a good visit with Sallie.

Jul 04, 2022 3:19:49 PM Me

I was in the room with Sallie when Liz showed up, so you can go for a visit

Jul 04, 2022 3:20:11 PM +18056371315

I don’t want to cut your visit short. Please do whatever is best.

Jul 04, 2022 3:21:18 PM Me

I had been there since before 12 and had a great visit. She’s in good spirits and seems like herself 👍

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Jul 04, 2022 3:21:38 PM (Read by you after 22 seconds) +18056371315

Music to my ears.

Jul 04, 2022 3:21:55 PM (Read by you after 5 seconds) +18056371315

Thank you. I’m heading up.

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Jul 04, 2022 9:33:41 PM ⇱ Me

I hear you 1000% And I’ll let you in on a little secret, the dark side never goes away, just like in Star Wars. It just regroups and comes back. With the perspective I have now I can ID 5 episodes on the severe/major scale used to evaluate ppl. And when I test I ring every bell hard, except the self harm. SUPER adverse to it actually, like squeamish. Anyhow I digress. I have my ppl that I reach out to when the dark side shows up. Honestly wouldn’t be texting u now without their help, words, wisdom and love. It’s what’s helped me keep my head above water
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Jul 04, 2022 9:38:16 PM ⇱ Me

I completely respect where ur coming from. I take no offense and know u have everyone’s happiness and best interests at heart. My hope is that I did not make you feel obligated to use your superpowers with me. I respect you completely as a human, and again as a mental health pro. You’ve earned your stripes 🖖 so from now on you’ll get the occasional 🧠 question but I’ll just send u all the funny shit ppl share with me if ur kool with that?

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Jul 04, 2022 9:40:00 PM ⇱ Me

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I was recently introduced to the book of “Fallopians”
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Jul 04, 2022 9:40:28 PM ⇱ Me

🤣
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Jul 07, 2022 9:29:47 PM Me

OMG 😱 Imagine you might burn the house down after seeing something like that crawl out of your closet.

Jul 07, 2022 9:29:49 PM Me

Twitter

Jul 07, 2022 10:29:51 PM (Read by you after 8 minutes, 45 seconds) +18056371315

I may never sleep again after seeing that.

Jul 07, 2022 10:38:38 PM (Read by them after 1 second) Me

haha

Jul 07, 2022 10:38:58 PM (Read by them after 1 second) Me

has to be near the equator or rain forest

Jul 07, 2022 10:49:12 PM (Read by you after 57 seconds) +18056371315

Let us pray 🙏

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Jul 07, 2022 10:50:49 PM Me

I was just thinking that thing would be too big for the spider vacuum

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Jul 14, 2022 11:56:19 PM (Read by you after 6 seconds) +18056371315

Jul 15, 2022 1:01:31 AM (Read by you after 12 hours, 19 minutes, 41 seconds) +18056371315

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/07/30/us/jetpack-sighting-lax.html

Jul 15, 2022 5:08:40 PM (Read by you after 34 seconds) +18056371315

Any chance I could get a ride home from Ventura today when I drop off my rental car?

Jul 15, 2022 5:09:08 PM (Read by you after 6 seconds) +18056371315

Are you still at Sallie’s SNF? I could walk there from my car rental place (Enterprise).

Jul 15, 2022 5:09:49 PM Me

Liz took Sallies car and took her to an appt. So we didn’t go visit today. I’m up in Ojai right now

Jul 15, 2022 5:10:17 PM Me

And I have The jeep 😁

Jul 15, 2022 5:10:44 PM Me

Liz might be in Ventura right now

Jul 15, 2022 5:11:54 PM +18056371315

Ok, let me see if I can catch her.

Jul 15, 2022 5:12:04 PM +18056371315

Otherwise, there’s always the bus.

Jul 15, 2022 5:13:24 PM Me

Oh I didn’t mean to make it sound like I couldn’t pick you up, I’m just up here and I think she might be there. I can totally come pick you up. Let me know when and where.

Jul 15, 2022 5:13:47 PM +18056371315

Not at all!

Jul 15, 2022 5:14:10 PM +18056371315

Didn’t mean to sound that way! Text is weird!

Jul 15, 2022 5:14:16 PM +18056371315

I think I caught Liz in time!!

Jul 15, 2022 5:14:25 PM Me

K, lmk

Jul 15, 2022 7:15:37 PM (Read by you after 15 hours, 59 minutes, 36 seconds) +18056371315

Liz drive me home…thank you!

Jul 15, 2022 7:15:47 PM (Read by you after 15 hours, 59 minutes, 26 seconds) +18056371315

Drove, I mean.

Jul 22, 2022 11:35:32 AM (Read by you after 14 minutes, 54 seconds) +18056371315

Just fyi, Sherry mistook a bottle in her medicine cabinet last night and ended up putting anti-fungal drops in her eye instead of eye drops...and it burned her eye. She didn't want to go to the ER (she's only slept like 8 hours total over the past 3 days due to paperwork that was due), so I think she was just too exhausted to go. She says she'll see an eye doctor today. Just letting you know.

Jul 22, 2022 11:50:50 AM Me

OMG 😳

Jul 22, 2022 11:51:20 AM Me

This is after COVID too

Jul 22, 2022 11:51:26 AM Me

Oy!

Jul 22, 2022 11:53:03 AM (Read by you after 6 minutes, 45 seconds) +18056371315

I know. It’s terrible. I think she’ll be ok, bc she said the burning was beginning to stop. But if you have a second to text her some love, I know she’d love that.

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Aug 07, 2022 8:28:31 PM (Read by them after 6 seconds) Me

Twitter

Aug 07, 2022 8:57:48 PM (Read by you after 17 seconds) +18056371315

What a great bookshop!

Aug 07, 2022 8:58:14 PM Me

Hated the boys ever get back to you?

Aug 07, 2022 8:58:28 PM Me

Not hated, hey, Did

Aug 07, 2022 8:58:43 PM Me

About Oreo

Aug 07, 2022 8:58:49 PM +18056371315

No, I didn’t hear from them but no worries! They never have to.

Aug 07, 2022 8:59:07 PM +18056371315

I take silence as the polite teenage “no thanks.”

Aug 07, 2022 8:59:11 PM Me

I’m up here with westy and Oreos more than welcome to come hang out with us if you need someone to sit with him

Aug 07, 2022 8:59:14 PM +18056371315

😊

Aug 07, 2022 8:59:49 PM +18056371315

Thanks so much. He just got a bunch of exercise so I think I he’s ok. But thank you.

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Aug 07, 2022 9:00:33 PM +18056371315

If the boys are ever bored or wanting some summer pocket money, let me know…always happy to give Oreo a change of scenery.

Aug 08, 2022 8:26:34 PM (Read by them after 58 minutes, 2 seconds) Me

hey jo, wanted to share my new website with you. I finally built one after decades of getting by. Works on all devices. And no I’m not asking you to edit :-)

Aug 08, 2022 8:26:37 PM (Read by them after 57 minutes, 59 seconds) Me

Bert Mahoney—User Experience and User Interface Designer

Aug 08, 2022 11:49:47 PM (Read by you after 28 seconds) +18056371315

Very impressive, Bert!! Looks so professional!

Aug 09, 2022 12:08:41 AM Me

😊 thanks. Turning the lens on oneself and “presenting professionally” is not the easiest of tasks for me on a deep level. As someone who has had endless imposter syndrome my entire career, and had a long heavy spell of depression, I’m acutely aware of what I’m publishing and sharing. To me it’s balancing a need to communicate my skills simply and elegantly, and simultaneously ward off the voices telling you “you’re a joke, ur not good at this” or better “you don’t belong here or anywhere.” (Lovely thoughts I know) I’ve never really every had an online portfolio like this. Mostly because I’ve never believed in myself over all these decades, or that anything I did had any merit. The “not good enough” hamster wheel 🛞 was ever present. I had a habit of shrugging it off to other professional colleagues as a story of “the cobbler’s children have no shoes.” Aka I’m so busy I can’t take care of my own. That’s all in the past now with publishing this site. Although, I have to admit there is a weird “feeling naked in public” vibe when looking at it 🤣🤣🤣

Aug 09, 2022 12:08:52 AM Me

Thanks again for having a look

Aug 09, 2022 11:42:38 AM (Read by them after 38 minutes, 10 seconds) Me

I love seeing this entry in my online form, hahaha

Aug 09, 2022 2:46:58 PM (Read by you after 6 seconds) +18056371315

It is really hard to be vulnerable and put ourselves out there...and when one has that hamster wheel voice in one’s head, it’s hard to even be motivated to *try* to accomplish anything. So I think you should give yourself credit for pushing through that voice and creating something that you’re proud of.

Aug 09, 2022 2:48:27 PM (Read by you after 28 seconds) +18056371315

And something that is truly impressive...very professional. Not to mention all the examples of great work you have on there. Really well done.

Aug 09, 2022 2:48:58 PM (Read by them after 1 second) Me

THANK YOU!

Aug 09, 2022 2:49:52 PM Me

had a great interview with a recruiter this morning. he’s lining up 2 interviews for me. Told me my website was reason he reached out to me #FTW!!!

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Aug 09, 2022 2:50:40 PM (Read by you after 15 minutes, 20 seconds) +18056371315

That’s great!

Aug 22, 2022 9:45:11 PM (Read by you after 14 hours, 53 minutes, 10 seconds) +18056371315

Would it be ok if I came up and got Koda?

Aug 22, 2022 9:45:17 PM (Read by you after 14 hours, 53 minutes, 4 seconds) +18056371315

Oreo is missing her.

Aug 30, 2022 1:26:27 AM (Read by you after 9 hours, 39 minutes, 5 seconds) +18056371315

Unable to locate attachment: IMG_2917.mov

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Aug 30, 2022 1:27:39 AM (Read by you after 9 hours, 37 minutes, 53 seconds) +18056371315

Unable to locate attachment: IMG_2919.mov

Sep 06, 2022 12:07:46 PM Me

Happy Birthday Jo!!!! 🎂

Sep 06, 2022 1:09:26 PM (Read by you after 5 hours, 45 minutes, 25 seconds) +18056371315

Thank you!

Sep 14, 2022 12:06:55 AM (Read by them after 2 seconds) Me

Hi Jo! Not sure if you heard the news about Ken Starr passing away ( he was the lawyer who went after Clinton because of Monica Lewinski ) I saw this cartoon and thought of your love of “the claw” Plus its funny! 🤣 hope all is well ￼

Sep 14, 2022 1:11:54 AM +18056371315

I feel stupid, but I don’t get the joke…how sad that my mind is failing!

Sep 14, 2022 12:09:09 PM Me

Kissinger isn’t dead year

Sep 14, 2022 12:09:13 PM Me

Yet

Sep 14, 2022 3:59:33 PM (Read by you after 7 hours, 18 minutes, 18 seconds) +18056371315

Now I get it.

Sep 14, 2022 3:59:40 PM (Read by you after 7 hours, 18 minutes, 11 seconds) +18056371315

Sorry I’m slow.

Sep 30, 2022 1:52:49 PM (Read by them after 32 minutes, 49 seconds) Me

LV fire extinguishers Jo! A must have.

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Oct 07, 2022 12:33:15 AM (Read by you after 12 hours, 40 minutes, 22 seconds) +18056371315

Can we FaceTime with you or is she too exhausted to talk?

Oct 07, 2022 12:52:18 AM Me

When I find her and we get to someplace to celebrate

Oct 07, 2022 1:05:16 AM (Read by you after 12 hours, 8 minutes, 21 seconds) +18056371315

Don’t worry…I’ll talk to her when you guys get back! Just be in the moment and enjoy celebrating. Tell her Stephanie, Barb, Sallie, Sherry, Jessica/Yung and I are all sending our love!!!

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Oct 07, 2022 1:05:17 AM (Read by you after 12 hours, 8 minutes, 20 seconds) +18056371315

❤️❤️❤️

Oct 07, 2022 1:40:26 AM Me

Got it

Oct 07, 2022 1:41:22 AM Me

Just got done putting her bike in the condo, and I am headed back down to Pancho and Lefty‘s where Aidan, Corey, and Darragh and of course Liz have already started celebrating I am half a block away and so excited for this moment in her life

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Oct 07, 2022 2:07:19 AM (Read by you after 11 hours, 6 minutes, 18 seconds) +18056371315

❤️❤️❤️!!!

Oct 08, 2022 10:59:06 PM +18056371315

What time do you guys get into LAX tomorrow night?

Oct 08, 2022 11:43:14 PM Me

I think midnight

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Oct 08, 2022 11:43:30 PM Me

I am not looking forward to reentry

Oct 08, 2022 11:45:04 PM +18056371315

Because Hawaii has been so great that you don’t want to come home?

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Oct 08, 2022 11:45:24 PM ⇲ Me

No

Oct 08, 2022 11:46:08 PM ⇲ Me

It’s beautiful here but I lack the capacity to enjoy it

Oct 08, 2022 11:45:17 PM +18056371315

Or just the hassle of flying?

Oct 08, 2022 11:45:24 PM ⇱ Me

No
This message responded to an earlier message.

Oct 08, 2022 11:46:08 PM ⇱ Me

It’s beautiful here but I lack the capacity to enjoy it
This message responded to an earlier message.

Oct 08, 2022 11:46:32 PM +18056371315

Why is that? Are you not feeling well?

Oct 08, 2022 11:46:34 PM Me

Too distracted with personal stress

Oct 08, 2022 11:46:41 PM +18056371315

Oh no!

Oct 08, 2022 11:47:02 PM +18056371315

Sallie mentioned you had a bunch of interviews.

Oct 08, 2022 11:47:11 PM Me

Feels 5x worse here

Oct 08, 2022 11:47:34 PM +18056371315

If you can, try to put them out of your mind…and just breathe.

Oct 08, 2022 11:51:05 PM ⇲ Me

I’ve tried all week. Too much monkey mind and self hatred

Oct 08, 2022 11:51:55 PM ⇲ Me

I still cannot forgive myself for hurting Liz. And honestly I don’t think I’ll ever be able to 😢

Oct 08, 2022 11:47:41 PM Me

This place is a perpetual reminder that I’m filling in so many parts of my life right now it’s very triggering for my depression

Oct 08, 2022 11:48:00 PM Me

Filling =failing

Oct 08, 2022 11:48:44 PM Me

I’m on an island with thousands of Ironman, people who can set goals and complete them and kick ass and take names. It’s just a constant reminder of how fucking ridiculous I am

Oct 08, 2022 11:49:28 PM Me

The things these people are conquering here seem to pale in comparison to normal life

Oct 08, 2022 11:51:05 PM ⇱ Me

I’ve tried all week. Too much monkey mind and self hatred
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Oct 08, 2022 11:51:55 PM ⇱ Me

I still cannot forgive myself for hurting Liz. And honestly I don’t think I’ll ever be able to 😢
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Oct 08, 2022 11:54:08 PM (Read by you after 8 minutes, 54 seconds) +18056371315

Is there any chance those thoughts are what’s holding you back? For example, what if you tried out something like this instead: “I’m feeling uncomfortable and sad…and I’m going to use that as a sign that I’m not currently living my values…or something is out of alignment. I’m going to thank my gut for pointing out that there’s something I want to change. While I think of exactly what I want to change in my life, I’m going to start by recognizing the successes I’ve already had in changing my life for the better. 1) I finished college and moved away from home. That was brave. 2) I’ve raised 3 amazing kids who love me. 3) I’ve created countless excellent websites. 4) I’ve taken care of myself with hiking and good nutrition 5) I’ve made it through several very difficult years. I’ve learned mindfulness and how to manage my emotions. 6) I’ve told my dad how I feel, which was scary but I did it anyway. 7) I have friends/family like Darrell, Russ and Dale, who care about me.

Oct 08, 2022 11:56:30 PM (Read by you after 6 minutes, 32 seconds) +18056371315

That’s off the top of my head, but I’d encourage you to make a complete and thorough list of ways you’ve already done amazing things, and then remind yourself you’re capable of setting healthy goals and then achieving them.

Oct 08, 2022 11:58:31 PM (Read by you after 4 minutes, 31 seconds) +18056371315

Is any part of the monkey brain due to being away (out of your usual environment) without some of the things you usually have in hand to cope (hiking, music, electronics, darts, a very cool porch with a view, Weston, etc.)?

Oct 09, 2022 12:00:51 AM +18056371315

If so, remind yourself those things will be available to you very soon…and think of what you can access while you’re there. Can you take a walk along the beach? Meditate somewhere? Listen to some calming music? Go swimming in the beautiful ocean? What can you do to center yourself while you’re there?

Oct 09, 2022 12:09:45 AM Me

I’m continuously ghosted. Sometimes I’m made to feel like I don’t exist at all. When that goes on long enough pretty soon you just don’t give a shit anymore.

Oct 09, 2022 12:11:02 AM Me

I feel like an outsider living with my family and that’s not normal

Oct 09, 2022 12:15:56 AM Me

My apologies for my suitcase 🧳 of troubles falling out of my hand and onto the floor 😬 I didn’t mean to seem like I’m looking for counsel. I have a few things I can try, and then there’s just dealing and things are what they are. There are variables beyond my control

Oct 09, 2022 12:17:13 AM +18056371315

I’m not sure who is ghosting you, but just know that we’ve all experienced that in life. Just about every person has had to wrestle with rejection, feeling unloved, betrayal, and more at some point. Even by their own family, parents, siblings, spouses, kids, etc. Everyone’s healthy path out of feeling that way is something they have to figure out (with the help of a professional sometimes), but there is a healthy path.

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Oct 09, 2022 12:19:26 AM +18056371315

Sherry had to figure it out for herself, Sallie had to find a new path, and so did I. So have so many. And we all found a way and are happy now…even if life didn’t work out how we had pictures it or planned.

Oct 09, 2022 12:20:17 AM Me

Right now everything feels wrong and has felt that way for over a year

Oct 09, 2022 12:21:28 AM +18056371315

That is really hard, but it can and will get better if you let it. It you work at finding your own personal healthy path. You mentioned the island of Ironmen. Every one of them started out with one healthy choice. Which led to another. And another, and another.

Oct 09, 2022 12:21:33 AM Me

It feels like a never ending slog and happiness is a mirage

Oct 09, 2022 12:22:02 AM Me

I hear you

Oct 09, 2022 12:22:27 AM Me

But sometimes depression and negativity have other plans for you

Oct 09, 2022 12:22:52 AM Me

The one thing I have experienced is sometimes no amount of positive thinking or healthy choices with the darkness.

Oct 09, 2022 12:23:00 AM Me

With = lift

Oct 09, 2022 12:23:25 AM Me

I just feel like I’m skating on thin ice and don’t want to fall back in

Oct 09, 2022 12:23:54 AM +18056371315

If any of them had instead chosen to pursue an unhealthy path (“I’m worthless” or “I’m unloveable” or “no one treats me the way I want them to” “I’m going to drink to make the feelings go away”) the. they likely wouldn’t be at the finish line right now.

Oct 09, 2022 12:24:42 AM Me

And of course my sensitivity towards those closest to me is incredibly heightened. I mask, smile, say things are ok to those that care to ask

Oct 09, 2022 12:26:59 AM (Read by you after 6 seconds) +18056371315

I know at some point we’ve talked about riding in the passenger seat (instead of the drivers seat) in the car of one’s own self esteem. Does your depression mostly stem from wishing people loved you more, and treated you differently?

Oct 09, 2022 12:27:21 AM +18056371315

Of is it something different?

Oct 09, 2022 12:28:01 AM Me

Being unemployed, broke and a nearly destroyed marriage makes getting thru every day an Ironman. And That’s been over a year

Oct 09, 2022 12:28:09 AM +18056371315

Either way, I really encourage you to call a therapist to get some support in this.

Oct 09, 2022 12:28:29 AM Me

The amount of energy and effort to keep one’s head above water is exhausting

Oct 09, 2022 12:28:47 AM Me

And that’s just trying to keep your head above water, never mind really accomplishing real things

Oct 09, 2022 12:29:07 AM +18056371315

Bert, are you safe and ok?

Oct 09, 2022 12:29:27 AM Me

Oh did I mention all the debt 💸? Hahahahaha

Oct 09, 2022 12:29:31 AM Me

So fucked

Oct 09, 2022 12:29:32 AM +18056371315

You have accomplished real things.

Oct 09, 2022 12:29:46 AM Me

Seriously L O L here

Oct 09, 2022 12:29:53 AM +18056371315

You have succeeded before so you can succeed again.

Oct 09, 2022 12:34:49 AM ⇲ Me

With age and current events of the past few years I’ve unearthed a deep sense of worthlessness that’s been buried in me since I was little. Shaking a lie that’s 50 years old takes some time

Oct 09, 2022 12:29:59 AM +18056371315

Are you safe and ok?

Oct 09, 2022 12:32:49 AM ⇲ Me

Is Darrell there? 🤣🤣 That sounds like him

Oct 09, 2022 12:32:49 AM ⇱ Me

Is Darrell there? 🤣🤣 That sounds like him
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Oct 09, 2022 12:33:24 AM +18056371315

Darrell and I are similar souls, maybe.

Oct 09, 2022 12:34:49 AM ⇱ Me

With age and current events of the past few years I’ve unearthed a deep sense of worthlessness that’s been buried in me since I was little. Shaking a lie that’s 50 years old takes some time
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Oct 09, 2022 12:35:34 AM +18056371315

It does… it take a step toward liking yourself every day.

Oct 09, 2022 12:35:37 AM Me

I meditate many times daily and will soon hover off the floor.

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Oct 09, 2022 12:35:53 AM +18056371315

BUT take a step every day, I meant.

Oct 09, 2022 12:36:54 AM Me

However the ego is unrelenting. I have yet to figure out how to put it a headlock

Oct 09, 2022 12:38:07 AM +18056371315

You’ve already taken the biggest step…realizing the myth of your worthlessness is just that: a myth. A lie, as you said. Figure out what qualities you want to develop (or realize you have them already) and allow them to emerge.

Oct 09, 2022 12:38:43 AM Me

Ah You’ve now reached the rub in the story.

Oct 09, 2022 12:41:31 AM Me

I have complete and accurate clarity over all of the little foibles and mental machinations that cause my misery. I’ve meditated for hundreds of hours these past few years on every topic, thought, and myth that’s been along for the entire ride of my life. However I feel like an untrained Padawan when confronting them. I’ve tried many tools techniques approaches, hypnosis… nothing has worked

Oct 09, 2022 12:42:33 AM Me

That being said I know there’s no magic pill. New one thing I’m going to do once and solve all my problems. I know I have to work at it, but what I have found is that everything I’ve tried working on has borne no fruit

Oct 09, 2022 12:43:06 AM Me

I keep running into a brick wall, and everyone is telling me there is no wall

Oct 09, 2022 12:43:19 AM Me

That’s what it feels like

Oct 09, 2022 12:43:44 AM +18056371315

Have you realized that their hold over you is temporary. Those feelings, however powerful in the moment, are temporary. They pass. Let them pass. Breathe as they pass by you. Wave to them as they pass. Watch the thoughts pass by on a conveyor belt.

Oct 09, 2022 12:45:07 AM Me

I have done that. but when I focus so heavy on them, they’re around all day. Ignoring does nothing too. Honestly I think I’m at the point where I need one of those ayahuasca huts, or medical LSD

Oct 09, 2022 12:45:33 AM +18056371315

The thought “everything I’ve tried has borne no fruit” is part of the myth.

Oct 09, 2022 12:45:37 AM Me

I literally need to re-map my brain. If I were to draw analogies to software I need a serious update

Oct 09, 2022 12:46:08 AM Me

The ruts of worn out thinking in my brain are so deep feels like no matter what we also put on I’m still in the right

Oct 09, 2022 12:46:14 AM +18056371315

Will you talk to someone when you get back here?

Oct 09, 2022 12:48:28 AM ⇲ Me

I would love to, but it would literally take me dozens of sessions just to get somebody up to speed on where I’m at. And I’m so sick of dealing with it it just feels fruitless. Over a decade of CBT only brought awareness to everything driving me mad, and solve none of it. So now instead of being blissfully ignorant of these things it’s like a 3X factor on the impact.

Oct 09, 2022 12:49:28 AM ⇲ Me

if you know of someone I would try

Oct 09, 2022 12:49:49 AM ⇲ Me

I don’t have an aversion to it, it’s just that my previous experience created lots of awareness but no solutions for me

Oct 09, 2022 12:50:11 AM ⇲ Me

You start to feel like a puppy who’s getting his nose stuffed in the pile of shit all the time

Oct 09, 2022 12:46:17 AM Me

Right = rut

Oct 09, 2022 12:48:28 AM ⇱ Me

I would love to, but it would literally take me dozens of sessions just to get somebody up to speed on where I’m at. And I’m so sick of dealing with it it just feels fruitless. Over a decade of CBT only brought awareness to everything driving me mad, and solve none of it. So now instead of being blissfully ignorant of these things it’s like a 3X factor on the impact.
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Oct 09, 2022 12:49:28 AM ⇱ Me

if you know of someone I would try
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Oct 09, 2022 12:49:49 AM ⇱ Me

I don’t have an aversion to it, it’s just that my previous experience created lots of awareness but no solutions for me
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Oct 09, 2022 12:50:11 AM ⇱ Me

You start to feel like a puppy who’s getting his nose stuffed in the pile of shit all the time
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Oct 09, 2022 12:52:34 AM +18056371315

Have you worked with someone who specializes in working with BPD (or specializes in whatever you think your focus would be)? Some therapist who specialize in BPD have training in DBT and other therapies where there is real evidence they help clients with BPD (client who have struggled to make progress with other therapies).

Oct 09, 2022 12:58:31 AM ⇲ Me

I started to but she was $250 for 50mins. After 2 sessions I realized it was gonna take me years to get to where I needed to with her. I’ve done so much work on myself I feel like I am at a PhD level understanding of what’s going on in my head I just don’t know the solution. But when I start with a new therapist it’s like welcome to kindergarten time

Oct 09, 2022 12:59:27 AM ⇲ Me

I just don’t have the patience for months and months of this. I’ve been fighting it and struggling with it so long I just want it gone

Oct 09, 2022 12:53:24 AM +18056371315

They are called “evidence based” treatment modalities bc there is concrete evidence they work.

Oct 09, 2022 12:55:03 AM +18056371315

Oct 09, 2022 12:55:48 AM +18056371315

Oct 09, 2022 12:56:03 AM Me

I have a question for you, I suspect that I have a deficiency in reading nonverbal emotional communications. Ie, autistic spectrum tendencies, that make it near impossible to read people well when talking with them. I recently discovered this is a thing, like propagnosia (face blindness). I’ve struggled with interpersonal communication my whole life and use my own hacks etc to get by I’m convinced this has played a HUGE part in the breakdown of things

Oct 09, 2022 12:58:31 AM ⇱ Me

I started to but she was $250 for 50mins. After 2 sessions I realized it was gonna take me years to get to where I needed to with her. I’ve done so much work on myself I feel like I am at a PhD level understanding of what’s going on in my head I just don’t know the solution. But when I start with a new therapist it’s like welcome to kindergarten time
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Oct 09, 2022 12:59:19 AM (Read by you after 8 seconds) +18056371315

I can’t diagnose anyone I haven’t seen clinically (and I can’t see anyone clinically that I have a dual relationship with). But there are people who specialize in ASD…and part of DBT is a focus on interpersonal skills…learning how to read other people’s boundaries and set your own. Learning how to relate to people more effectively and successfully. This is one of the pillars of DBT.

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Oct 09, 2022 12:59:27 AM ⇱ Me

I just don’t have the patience for months and months of this. I’ve been fighting it and struggling with it so long I just want it gone
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Oct 09, 2022 1:02:20 AM Me

For example I would not have the SLIGHTEST IDEA if someone was flirting. I’m convinced I’ve never been flirted with in my entire life, because it’s never happened

Oct 09, 2022 1:02:47 AM Me

To me I’m speaking to someone were exchanging words and information it’s very information based not nuanced in anyway

Oct 09, 2022 1:03:16 AM Me

That’s where the freaky autism part comes in to play conversations are black and white in someway to me

Oct 09, 2022 1:04:16 AM Me

It’s not that I can’t understand it, when it’s explained to me and shown I can see it and I can get it. It’s just that left on my own I would never see it or pick it up. It’s like I didn’t get the hardware installed before I showed up on earth for that one

Oct 09, 2022 1:05:03 AM Me

For example it’s been told to me probably hundreds of times that I have a tone when I speak. I hear no tone it’s information

Oct 09, 2022 1:05:47 AM +18056371315

In this moment, you’re maybe feeling hopeless, but that feeling will pass (it has before,and will again) and when you’re feeling more hopeful, you might have more energy to try DBT. You think it will be kindergarten time…in my experience, it’s not. You’re not starting from scratch…you’re starting from the strong foundation you have built for yourself from everything you’ve learned.

Oct 09, 2022 1:06:32 AM Me

Anyway I digress, and until I get a JOB I can’t afford any help (yay USA healthcare!)

Oct 09, 2022 1:06:54 AM +18056371315

Do you have insurance through Thacher?

Oct 09, 2022 1:21:32 AM ⇲ Me

Yes, but mental health is reimbursed and not in full. AND they don’t have many ppl in/on the plan

Oct 09, 2022 1:07:24 AM +18056371315

VCBH also has free or low cost therapy.

Oct 09, 2022 1:08:31 AM (Read by you after 1 second) +18056371315

Both clinics where I worked (JFS in Ventura and CLU’s community counseling clinic in Oxnard) had a sliding scale. I saw people for $5 a session sometimes.

Oct 09, 2022 1:09:49 AM +18056371315

But they likely won’t have people who specialize yet in DBT…but it’s a start while you wait to get a job.

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Oct 09, 2022 1:15:34 AM Me

Sorry to say I’ve felt hopeless every day for 14mos I cry at least once a day, sometimes a lot, when I reflect on the hurt I caused. And seriously I don’t know if I really will ever forgive myself over it. I live every day like I’m just waiting for the divorce papers to show up. My anxiety and depression around that seem to have no limits. Right now I have no idea what a Post Kona world looks like. Will things be the same? Will training time just get filled with more horse time? I don’t know. Liz doesn’t talk with me about anything other than logistics. All my efforts to help and be kind are turned down. I don’t see any way back and that destroys my soul. Wake up, worry, fear, sadness and tears thinking about hurting raise you love the most in this world, don’t make anyone angry, more fear until you’re too tired. Cry yourself to sleep, repeat for 14 months.

Oct 09, 2022 1:17:00 AM Me

And for the 2 years before that I was incredibly depressed masking it because of low self esteem and self hate

Oct 09, 2022 1:19:20 AM Me

So much SHAME for everything I’ve done. The guilt is enormous

Oct 09, 2022 1:21:32 AM ⇱ Me

Yes, but mental health is reimbursed and not in full. AND they don’t have many ppl in/on the plan
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Oct 09, 2022 1:25:11 AM Me

Ok, I’ll stop 🛑 🙂 thanks for “listening”

Oct 09, 2022 1:28:30 AM (Read by you after 1 second) +18056371315

I knew a guy in high school who drank one night, drove home from a party, and killed an 18 year old fellow student in another car, in a DUI. For a long time, his full focus was shame and hating himself. But at some point, I think he realized that focusing on that was: A) not helping anyone, not the family of the dead kid, not the community, not his parents. Also not helping himself. B) Was pretty much guaranteed to prevent any positive change and just cause a repeat of the same day endlessly. C) selfish. Possibly even narcissistic. He was only thinking of himself and his own shame. Not other people and how his shame spiral was impacting them.

Oct 09, 2022 1:30:52 AM +18056371315

Eventually he changed. He got nicer to people, not out of shame and feeling he had to be, but bc he really genuinely wanted to be thinking about them and their needs, as well as his own. He decided to start looking through the car’s front window in the direction of where he was going (and wanted to go)…not always looking in the rear view mirror…expecting to navigate life successfully by always looking only. behind him.

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Oct 09, 2022 1:32:03 AM Me

Totally heard

Oct 09, 2022 1:32:15 AM Me

Just that no one is hearing me

Oct 09, 2022 1:32:17 AM +18056371315

DBT talks about radical acceptance. It’s a concept that has helped me.

Oct 09, 2022 1:34:05 AM +18056371315

I could focus endlessly on my shortcomings and how they led Davjd to reject me. Or I could focus on blaming him for not loving me, even though I tried to be a good wife. Wallowing in shame (or in its cousin, blame) will not change anything. It will not make David love me more. It will not draw him towards me.

Oct 09, 2022 1:34:22 AM +18056371315

It will just guarantee sadness and no change. Same day over and over.

Oct 09, 2022 1:34:49 AM +18056371315

I had to accept that everything that had happened, had happened. I couldn’t change it.

Oct 09, 2022 1:35:18 AM +18056371315

And instead of squandering my energy and emotions in shame or blame, I decided to focus it on solutions.

Oct 09, 2022 1:36:08 AM Me

I can forgive myself. I tried over and over repeating it. Doesn’t stick. Until the person I’ve offended truly forgives me, I carry the burden.

Oct 09, 2022 1:36:31 AM +18056371315

So I did. It was a really hard few years. I let go of the dream of having a happy marriage, of having children and being a mom.

Oct 09, 2022 1:39:41 AM ⇲ Me

I’m so very sorry for all the emotional pain you had to process and didn’t want.

Oct 09, 2022 1:40:05 AM ⇲ Me

You didn’t deserve that

Oct 09, 2022 1:36:35 AM Me

It’s hung over my head

Oct 09, 2022 1:37:01 AM +18056371315

I let go of having what I wanted. And learned to accept and appreciate what was.

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Oct 09, 2022 1:37:34 AM Me

At times it feels like attrition

Oct 09, 2022 1:38:42 AM +18056371315

You don’t have to forgive yourself right now. Just choose to focus your energy elsewhere. Accept that the past cannot be changed. But the future can.

Oct 09, 2022 1:40:52 AM ⇲ Me

I just don’t know what that is

Oct 09, 2022 1:41:01 AM ⇲ Me

The future

Oct 09, 2022 1:41:15 AM ⇲ Me

Been waiting over a year for the future

Oct 09, 2022 1:39:41 AM ⇱ Me

I’m so very sorry for all the emotional pain you had to process and didn’t want.
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Oct 09, 2022 1:40:05 AM ⇱ Me

You didn’t deserve that
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Oct 09, 2022 1:40:52 AM ⇱ Me

I just don’t know what that is
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Oct 09, 2022 1:41:01 AM ⇱ Me

The future
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Oct 09, 2022 1:41:15 AM ⇱ Me

Been waiting over a year for the future
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Oct 09, 2022 1:41:21 AM +18056371315

And don’t expect forgiveness from others. Just like my friend John, who killed someone in a DUI. He couldn’t expect forgiveness. He just had to shift his energy from self loathing (and then anger at others for not forgiving him) and channel that energy into creating the life he wanted. One that might hold the hope of atoning for what he’d done. And I think he succeeded b

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Oct 09, 2022 1:42:23 AM +18056371315

Ask yourself what you want that only you can give to yourself (goals that don’t depend on other people doing or saying what you wish they’d say and do).

Oct 09, 2022 1:42:30 AM Me

Except what if you love the other more than any other person on the planet?

Oct 09, 2022 1:42:51 AM Me

I can’t relate without forgiveness

Oct 09, 2022 1:43:00 AM Me

Takes 2 to tango

Oct 09, 2022 1:43:24 AM +18056371315

If you want to get out of debt…you make a plan to do that.

Oct 09, 2022 1:44:10 AM +18056371315

I couldn’t make David love me. I could only decide that I like myself and am going to make healthy decisions that reflect that.

Oct 09, 2022 1:44:25 AM +18056371315

I can’t roll back time and have kids.

Oct 09, 2022 1:44:38 AM +18056371315

I can only find things that fulfill me now.

Oct 09, 2022 1:45:04 AM Me

But for me right now the number one goal is her. For me all of her goals are secondary

Oct 09, 2022 1:45:23 AM Me

For me all other goals are secondary

Oct 09, 2022 1:46:05 AM +18056371315

If I had focused on making David love me, that would have been like a child stamping her feet. Saying “I want it so I must have it!” But that’s not true. David has the right to not love me. He has the right to speak to me however he wants.

Oct 09, 2022 1:46:39 AM +18056371315

He has the right to spend his life however he wants.

Oct 09, 2022 1:46:55 AM Me

I feel like you’re telling me to leave Liz

Oct 09, 2022 1:47:13 AM +18056371315

It would be narcissistic of me to believe that just because I want something more than anything (David, children) that I must have it.

Oct 09, 2022 1:47:31 AM +18056371315

I’m not telling you that at all. I’m only talking about myself.

Oct 09, 2022 1:47:37 AM Me

oh

Oct 09, 2022 1:47:46 AM Me

Sorry

Oct 09, 2022 1:47:58 AM +18056371315

Not at all. No apology needed.

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Oct 09, 2022 1:49:43 AM (Read by you after 23 minutes, 34 seconds) +18056371315

Just saying that for me, if I had told myself “I can only be happy if David loves me.” Or “I can only be happy if I am a mother and have kids.” That would have been me buying into a myth. A thought, not a fact.

Oct 09, 2022 1:50:00 AM (Read by you after 23 minutes, 17 seconds) +18056371315

That thought would keep me stuck.

Oct 09, 2022 1:50:12 AM (Read by you after 23 minutes, 5 seconds) +18056371315

I had to move on from that myth.

Oct 09, 2022 1:53:33 AM (Read by you after 19 minutes, 44 seconds) +18056371315

It’s late and I should go. But just remember that these intense emotions pass Bert. And if you need help, please reach out to a professional, bc I swear to you, there are people out there who have felt the same amount of pain you are feeling now…and by reaching out for help, they learned how to feel better, have better relationships, and make life meaningful and fulfilling.

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Oct 09, 2022 1:55:03 AM (Read by you after 18 minutes, 14 seconds) +18056371315

My friend called this number a few weeks ago (she was deeply depressed) and she said just talking to them made her feel better…

Oct 09, 2022 1:55:07 AM (Read by you after 18 minutes, 10 seconds) +18056371315

Oct 09, 2022 1:55:39 AM (Read by you after 17 minutes, 38 seconds) +18056371315

You don’t have to be having imminent suicidal thoughts to call. She found it very beneficial.

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Oct 14, 2022 8:18:33 PM (Read by them after 1 second) Me

you’ll appreciate this

Oct 14, 2022 8:18:36 PM Me

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politics_of_the_Southern_United_States#The_South_becomes_Majority_Republican

Oct 14, 2022 8:19:04 PM (Read by them after 11 seconds) Me

Oct 17, 2022 4:10:35 PM (Read by them after 2 seconds) Me

Hi Jo! I’m looking to find an experienced LMFT to work with me and Liz. I reached out to Thacher to do a search thru the insurance to see if anyone locally provides services and did fine one woman in Ojai named Elizabeth A. Hollan. I’m wondering if you or maybe one of her colleagues may know of her.

Oct 17, 2022 4:10:40 PM Me

thanks! Bert

Oct 17, 2022 5:25:40 PM (Read by you after 21 seconds) +18056371315

I’m afraid I don’t recognize the name. Many LMFTs are willing to do a brief phone call before the first session to see if you’re a good fit (and many don’t charge for this initial consultation). When I was looking for a therapist, I did this myself…I looked at the panel covered by my insurance, and then called 3-5 to ask a few brief questions (like: 1) What clients do you specialize in working with? 2) what modalities do you use — CBT? DBT? Family Systems?). It helps give you a sense of how they think and what experience and backgrounds they have. You can also likely look her up on Psychology Today.

Oct 17, 2022 5:26:23 PM (Read by you after 4 seconds) +18056371315

Oct 17, 2022 5:26:26 PM (Read by them after 1 second) Me

Yep. I did that

Oct 17, 2022 5:26:40 PM (Read by them after 1 second) Me

And good suggestion on the questions, like an interview 😊

Oct 17, 2022 5:26:42 PM +18056371315

How did she sound on the phone?

Oct 17, 2022 5:27:49 PM Me

oh, meaning I found her on psych today site. Have not called her yet. I just found her name a few hours ago and thought to see if you or your network knew of her. I know she does DBT.

Oct 17, 2022 5:28:41 PM Me

I’m going to call tomorrow morning, it says she does a 15 minute consult call on the website. Like you said most pros do that to check for the right fit.

Oct 17, 2022 5:31:49 PM Me

I’m curious, as a pro, what do you find/see with regard to “fit”? Is it important to always work with someone who will push you—to help progress—or someone to gently guide you—letting you unpack things like your own discovery? I think it’s a difference in approaches or modalities but how would I know that or what to look out for to help identify style or their “Process”??

Oct 17, 2022 5:32:36 PM Me

What’s the best gauge of how someone’s approaches their clients?

Oct 17, 2022 5:47:07 PM (Read by you after 12 minutes, 33 seconds) +18056371315

Everyone’s different and in terms of “pushing”/directive versus more gentle, onky you can decide that. For me, I like a combo…a caring, smart, experienced therapist who also calls me on my s**t. It’s hard to tell in just 15 minutes by phone, but I’d personally be looking at: 1) Do they seem warm and caring (even on the phone)? 2) How are their communication skills? Do they speak in a succinct, clear, knowledgeable way? Or do they drone on and on, repeating themselves and not saying much that’s relevant or substantive? Do they talk at me, or listen? 3) How intelligent and knowledgeable do they seem? What questions do they ask me?

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Oct 17, 2022 5:50:54 PM (Read by you after 8 minutes, 46 seconds) +18056371315

Also, a good question to ask is “What’s your style like when you work with couples? Are you more directive, or not?” You can also ask about the specific approach or specialized training they use/have…”Do you use Gottman? Emotionally Focused Therapy? Other?”

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Oct 17, 2022 6:02:15 PM (Read by them after 1 second) ⇲ Me

Great question with the specific couples training/approaches. Where is a good place to learn more about those? This is in the things I dont know, that I dont know.

Oct 17, 2022 5:59:33 PM (Read by you after 7 seconds) +18056371315

One thing I’ll mention is that it’s important to respect everyone’s boundaries when it comes to therapy. It used to be that people thought it was helpful to “force” people to talk and get therapy. These days, many therapists think that’s harmful, re-traumatizing, and counterproductive. Especially for someone who has been through an assault or trauma. But it’s best you ask the therapist about this and how to handle/approach it), since I can’t really give advice on this topic, since I’m just a friend.

Oct 17, 2022 6:06:07 PM ⇲ Me

Jo, I am so grateful to have you as a friend and I completely respect you as a professional. So no problem on having a boundary on what's appropriate with giving me advice. I ask because you’re my friend and I know you are “in the know” when it comes to the mental healthcare field and profession.

Oct 17, 2022 6:02:15 PM (Read by them after 1 second) ⇱ Me

Great question with the specific couples training/approaches. Where is a good place to learn more about those? This is in the things I dont know, that I dont know.
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Oct 17, 2022 6:06:07 PM ⇱ Me

Jo, I am so grateful to have you as a friend and I completely respect you as a professional. So no problem on having a boundary on what's appropriate with giving me advice. I ask because you’re my friend and I know you are “in the know” when it comes to the mental healthcare field and profession.
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Oct 17, 2022 6:25:59 PM (Read by you after 1 hour, 13 minutes, 20 seconds) +18056371315

Thanks for understanding. Re: learning more…I wasn’t recommending those approaches (or recommending you research them)…they’re just examples. If you wanted to, you could ask what approach(es) the therapist uses and then ask them to give a brief description of that approach.

Dec 18, 2022 11:11:09 PM Me

Discovery

Dec 18, 2022 11:11:10 PM Me

Got it 👍😁

Dec 18, 2022 11:11:45 PM (Read by you after 2 minutes, 52 seconds) +18056371315

Reading...

Dec 18, 2022 11:14:30 PM (Read by you after 7 seconds) +18056371315

Very interesting...thanks for sending.

Dec 18, 2022 11:15:25 PM Me

Makes sense that waves bend differently in warmer air. Whole expand/contract paradigm

Dec 18, 2022 11:19:58 PM (Read by you after 11 hours, 34 minutes, 28 seconds) +18056371315

They lost me at "sound wave," but that's ok. But it confirmed what we were right, so that's enough for me. :)

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Jan 16, 2023 10:34:33 PM Me

https://www.joefrank.com/

Jan 16, 2023 10:34:33 PM Me

I got him dropped on my head today and had to look him up. I so miss his show. I wonder if we got a membership we could download all 225 shows? Imagine how many great episodes we’ve not heard.

Jan 16, 2023 10:36:02 PM Me

I found this on Spotify and made me want to listen to them. Again I miss them.

Jan 16, 2023 10:36:05 PM Me

Spotify

Jan 16, 2023 10:52:12 PM (Read by you after 12 seconds) +18056371315

I remember we used to listen to him in Long Beach…what a blast from the past. So glad you guys got to celebrate with Sallie and that she got to go out and have a real party! Great photos!!

Jan 16, 2023 10:53:36 PM Me

She had SO MUCH FUN and told me so when I dropped her off

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Jan 16, 2023 11:04:06 PM +18056371315

I love that video! She is so happy and delighted! That candle flower is very cool...great find. Thanks for sending the video!!

Jan 16, 2023 11:04:44 PM Me

Liz found it. And the “birthday girl” tiara 👑

Jan 16, 2023 11:05:04 PM Me

They were a big hit

Jan 16, 2023 11:06:06 PM (Read by you after 7 minutes, 14 seconds) +18056371315

Very cool!

Jan 16, 2023 11:06:16 PM (Read by you after 7 minutes, 4 seconds) +18056371315

I love the 99 cent store!

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Jan 16, 2023 11:14:19 PM Me

I just Remembered, didn’t you need help moving large items around in your backyard, or setting something up? I don’t know why that fell back into my head but I have a memory of that from a while ago. Just checking to see if you need some Declan and Darragh help

Jan 17, 2023 12:04:07 AM (Read by you after 11 hours, 52 minutes, 58 seconds) +18056371315

I will have some things to move! When everything dries out, if they feel like making a little pocket moola, let me know!

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Jan 17, 2023 12:04:21 AM (Read by you after 11 hours, 52 minutes, 44 seconds) +18056371315

Thanks for thinking of it!

Jan 17, 2023 11:58:50 AM Me

Not sure if you have Spotify, but someone built a playlist of all the music Joe Frank used in his shows. 296 songs, over 24 hours of music:

Jan 17, 2023 11:58:52 AM (Read by them after 1 second) Me

Spotify

Jan 17, 2023 3:59:00 PM (Read by you after 8 hours, 38 minutes, 17 seconds) +18056371315

I don't use Spotify, but that sounds like a fun project and play list!

Jan 21, 2023 8:00:35 PM (Read by you after 44 minutes, 32 seconds) +18056371315

How was the game today?

Jan 21, 2023 8:47:53 PM Me

Technically speaking as a coach it was our first complete game of the season— meaning, we controlled the ball and the tempo of the game in both the first half and second half.

Jan 21, 2023 8:48:31 PM Me

As a coach, it was the first game of the season, where everything “clicked“ for my team from first whistle to last

Jan 21, 2023 8:49:39 PM Me

We substituted many players, and the team was able to maintain possession, and continue to create chances for scoring. Even with changes of personnel, the team as a whole never missed a step

Jan 21, 2023 8:50:09 PM Me

It was happy Coach day

Jan 21, 2023 8:51:02 PM Me

And thank you for asking! that’s so kind And thoughtful of you

Jan 21, 2023 8:52:54 PM +18056371315

Thanks for the texts...so glad it went well!!

Jan 21, 2023 8:53:56 PM +18056371315

I confess, I was at Sallie's and she was the thoughtful one (she wondered aloud if your game went well). So glad it did. I just texted her to let her know.

Jan 27, 2023 11:15:26 PM (Read by you after 11 seconds) +18056371315

Yes, that’s it…

Jan 27, 2023 11:15:28 PM (Read by you after 9 seconds) +18056371315

Let’s eat better together. Save up to $65 off your first Daily Harvest box:

Jan 27, 2023 11:15:34 PM (Read by you after 3 seconds) +18056371315

https://www.daily-harvest.com/start

Jan 27, 2023 11:15:42 PM +18056371315

Ooops! Wrong link! Lol!!!

Jan 27, 2023 11:15:46 PM Me

Haha

Jan 27, 2023 11:15:51 PM Me

Jan 27, 2023 11:16:00 PM Me

Yes it’s Napoleon

Jan 27, 2023 11:16:02 PM +18056371315

I meant this…

Jan 27, 2023 11:16:07 PM +18056371315

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welcome_to_Wrexham

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Jan 27, 2023 11:16:56 PM Me

It’s Disney does that mean Apple TV?

Jan 27, 2023 11:17:27 PM (Read by you after 1 second) +18056371315

Oh wait, I just saw it only has 90% favorable on Rotten Tomatoes and only 75/100 on metacritic. I guess not everyone loved it as much as I did,

Jan 27, 2023 11:17:35 PM +18056371315

Netflix, I think.

Jan 27, 2023 11:17:48 PM Me

It has futbal

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Jan 27, 2023 11:17:59 PM Me

I’ll love it

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Jan 27, 2023 11:18:06 PM (Read by you after 1 minute, 30 seconds) +18056371315

Jan 27, 2023 11:18:23 PM (Read by you after 1 minute, 13 seconds) +18056371315

Hulu! Not Netflix!

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Jan 27, 2023 11:20:33 PM Me

I watch stuff like this and I’m glued

Jan 27, 2023 11:20:35 PM Me

YouTube

Jan 27, 2023 11:20:56 PM Me

With Pele, SO good

Jan 27, 2023 11:20:57 PM +18056371315

Then you will love Wrexham.

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Jan 27, 2023 11:22:03 PM Me

Also watched an Amazon “behind the scenes vid for Manchester City” With Pep Guardiola, again so good

Jan 27, 2023 11:22:20 PM Me

Followed them for whole season

Jan 27, 2023 11:22:37 PM +18056371315

Nice!

Jan 27, 2023 11:23:04 PM Me

That and an entire season of watching the New Zealand All Blacks Rugby Team. That was amazing

Jan 27, 2023 11:23:21 PM Me

They do “the Hakka”

Jan 27, 2023 11:23:28 PM Me

U know that?

Jan 27, 2023 11:23:33 PM (Read by you after 1 second) +18056371315

What?

Jan 27, 2023 11:23:42 PM +18056371315

I dk the Hakka

Jan 27, 2023 11:23:46 PM Me

One sec

Jan 27, 2023 11:23:54 PM +18056371315

Unless you mean the guttural sounds they make.

Jan 27, 2023 11:23:58 PM +18056371315

I’ve seen that.

Jan 27, 2023 11:24:12 PM +18056371315

Not really my thing. Lol.

Jan 27, 2023 11:25:50 PM Me

YouTube

Jan 27, 2023 11:26:15 PM Me

So intense. I would not want to play them

Jan 27, 2023 11:26:21 PM (Read by you after 7 minutes, 10 seconds) +18056371315

Lol!

Feb 03, 2023 1:16:30 AM Me

Hi Jo! Here is the YouTube channel of dr. Fox he’s based in Texas. I like his videos. Here they are in playlists, grouped by area of focus. Hope you like it:

Feb 03, 2023 1:16:31 AM (Read by them after 2 seconds) Me

YouTube

Feb 03, 2023 2:12:37 AM (Read by you after 18 hours, 56 minutes, 20 seconds) +18056371315

Thank you!

Feb 03, 2023 9:10:01 PM Me

Sure! I have some other people but he’s the best. And so many videos on a wide range of sub topics related to BPD. If you’ve taken a look, I’m sure you’ve seen all the different flavors of videos he has it’s quite extensive hundreds of videos.

Feb 03, 2023 9:10:59 PM Me

I’d be really curious to hear from you after watching one of his videos what your take is. I’m a lay person so I find his presentation and information very interesting. But you may find it rather pedestrian like you already know what the hell he’s talking about so do let me know.

Feb 04, 2023 3:49:00 AM (Read by you after 10 hours, 21 minutes, 34 seconds) +18056371315

I haven’t seen that many of them...I’m not sure I love the push to “like, share and subscribe” but the important thing is not what I think, but whether it’s something that you feel is helping you gain insight and make tangible improvements. So I guess I’d ask you…what have you learned from the videos specifically, and how have you implemented those changes to help yourself?

Feb 11, 2023 11:18:50 PM (Read by you after 47 seconds) +18056371315

Sending you this because I know you go hiking with Weston sometimes...

Feb 11, 2023 11:18:56 PM (Read by you after 41 seconds) +18056371315

Ojai Valley News

Feb 11, 2023 11:25:03 PM Me

So incredibly sad to read

Feb 11, 2023 11:26:34 PM (Read by you after 11 hours, 5 minutes, 43 seconds) +18056371315

Heartbreaking and scary...hope none of us ever have to encounter one.

Feb 15, 2023 10:04:39 PM (Read by you after 1 hour, 13 minutes, 44 seconds) +18056371315

I'm taking the boys to Starbucks tomorrow around 6 if that's ok. Text me if you want anything (if I don't hear otherwise, I'll assume not)...I'm putting myself on a budget, so trying to be less of a spendthrift. 😊

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Feb 15, 2023 11:45:17 PM Me

Totally OK to take them all you want. They love that you take them for treats it’s some thing they look forward to.

Feb 15, 2023 11:45:46 PM Me

Oh, and the boys know what kind of latte I like and thank you!

Feb 15, 2023 11:48:31 PM (Read by you after 13 hours, 29 minutes, 26 seconds) +18056371315

Yes, but is it ok if I assume you don't want one (unless you text me to say otherwise) and/or that we start taking turns on picking up the tab?

Feb 16, 2023 1:18:13 PM Me

Sure

Feb 16, 2023 1:18:56 PM Me

I can send Declan with money on his Starbucks app to pay for tonight if that’s cool for you

Feb 16, 2023 2:46:36 PM (Read by you after 4 hours, 36 minutes, 41 seconds) +18056371315

Sounds good....unless that would be Declan's money? I don't want the kids to feel awkward at all or have to pay. If you think it would be easier, I could send you the order we get (it's always the same order) at 6, and you could order online, and we'd go pick it up. And we could just take turns doing that?

Feb 16, 2023 7:23:27 PM Me

Feb 16, 2023 7:51:11 PM (Read by you after 13 hours, 25 minutes, 17 seconds) +18056371315

Ha ha!!

Feb 19, 2023 8:08:49 PM (Read by you after 10 minutes, 35 seconds) +18056371315

I thought we discuss how you'd text me directly if you want anything at Starbucks, not ask the kids?

Feb 19, 2023 8:09:36 PM (Read by you after 9 minutes, 48 seconds) +18056371315

Can you confirm that you'll text me directly in the future each time?

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Feb 19, 2023 8:19:33 PM Me

Oh crap

Feb 19, 2023 8:20:21 PM Me

Venti vanilla blond latte. Almond milk Every time, it’s easy. Mea Culpa 🙏

Feb 19, 2023 8:22:19 PM (Read by you after 54 minutes, 21 seconds) +18056371315

Ok, but i dont want to assume you want one each time. Just text me directly when you want one. "Jo, could you get me the usual order?" I will otherwise assume you don't want one.

Feb 19, 2023 9:17:25 PM Me

That’s perfect but flip it. I’ll text if I don’t want it. Cool?

Feb 19, 2023 10:30:10 PM (Read by you after 36 minutes, 56 seconds) +18056371315

Just left you a message. My main concern is that we not involve the boys in this discussion (I don't want them to feel sad or uncomfortable in any way just because I'm trying to set a boundary with you)...the boundary we need to establish is between you and me, not me and them. So I think we should talk sometime when it's just us, if possible.

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Feb 19, 2023 11:07:39 PM Me

Understood

Feb 19, 2023 11:11:11 PM (Read by you after 1 hour, 47 minutes) +18056371315

Thank you, appreciate that...and I know this is a difficult situation for everyone.

Feb 23, 2023 7:24:00 PM (Read by you after 12 seconds) +18056371315

I'm picking up Starbucks...here's today's order... Venti Mango Dragonfuit refresher & a sausage and egg sandwich for Declan. Darragh would like the decaf iced Carmel macchiato and a pesto sandwich. Grande vanilla latte and pesto sandwich for me. Venti Blonde vanilla latte for you.

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Feb 23, 2023 7:24:24 PM +18056371315

Are you able to use your app to order this?

Feb 23, 2023 7:24:28 PM Me

Yep

Feb 23, 2023 7:24:34 PM +18056371315

Thank you!

Feb 23, 2023 7:24:42 PM Me

Can do it right now 🤙

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Feb 23, 2023 7:30:20 PM Me

Feb 23, 2023 7:30:45 PM Me

Order is in

Feb 23, 2023 7:31:08 PM Me

4 drinks 3 foods

Feb 23, 2023 7:37:51 PM +18056371315

Thank you! Perfect timing, just arrived.

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Mar 05, 2023 12:04:16 AM (Read by them after 1 second) Me

YouTube

Mar 05, 2023 12:04:37 AM Me

Thought this would interest you

Mar 05, 2023 12:05:39 AM Me

Hope you are well 😊

Mar 05, 2023 12:06:49 AM (Read by you after 1 hour, 8 minutes, 39 seconds) +18056371315

Thank you...I look forward to reading it!

Mar 05, 2023 12:07:28 AM (Read by you after 1 hour, 8 minutes) +18056371315

Oh, YouTube, even better!

Mar 05, 2023 12:20:31 AM (Read by you after 54 minutes, 57 seconds) +18056371315

Yes, very interesting. Thanks for sharing.

Mar 05, 2023 12:24:52 AM (Read by you after 50 minutes, 36 seconds) +18056371315

How are things going? As interesting as these kinds of videos can be, I hope you're getting more tangible support...ideally from an individual therapist?

Mar 05, 2023 1:53:04 AM Me

I’ll be honest life sucks right now. My heart is being crushed, torn and ripped apart

Mar 05, 2023 1:53:23 AM Me

My family is being destroyed

Mar 05, 2023 1:54:39 AM +18056371315

I'm so sorry you're hurting...I know everyone is. Are you seeing someone (a therapist) individually to deal with all this?

Mar 05, 2023 2:15:40 AM Me

This is not my choice. I am not the cause of this suffering. My boys will suffer greatly from this and I’m not happy about that.

Mar 05, 2023 2:21:41 AM +18056371315

Is it possible that no one needs to be seen as the cause...that no one needs to be the villain?

Mar 05, 2023 2:22:22 AM Me

I’ve been willing and wanting to talk. and to listen and try to heal. But Liz ghosts me all the time. I’m sitting here, not fully understanding why this is happening. no one has the kindness to take the time and tell me in detail why

Mar 05, 2023 2:22:29 AM (Read by you after 2 seconds) +18056371315

Will it help you to focus on the future (and not who is to blame in the past)?

Mar 05, 2023 2:22:41 AM Me

There is always cause-and-effect, and it takes two to tango

Mar 05, 2023 2:23:06 AM Me

Why do I wanna focus on the future that I don’t want? This is not my choice.

Mar 05, 2023 2:23:30 AM Me

Liz always gets what she wants why is this any different?

Mar 05, 2023 2:24:01 AM +18056371315

If things are heated and emotional now, would it help to defer the analysis of "cause and effect" for now?

Mar 05, 2023 2:25:02 AM Me

That’s just it we’ve never had heated and emotional periods of time in our relationship. This is like the first super bad time and she’s unwilling to work through it.

Mar 05, 2023 2:25:25 AM +18056371315

I feel like so much of how we feel is determined by where we choose to put our attention. Is focusing on who is to blame helping you or making you feel worse?

Mar 05, 2023 2:25:49 AM Me

No

Mar 05, 2023 2:26:02 AM Me

I’m not focused on blaming anybody

Mar 05, 2023 2:26:35 AM +18056371315

When did the tough times begin? How long ago?

Mar 05, 2023 2:27:37 AM Me

2018, after her father passed away. She became distant and withdrawn from me, kept me at a distance. I never ever saw her grieve for her father, and she never shared any of that with me. Ever since then, she just pushed me further and further away, kept ignoring me, and forgetting me more and more.

Mar 05, 2023 2:28:10 AM Me

I didn’t push or presser because I didn’t want to bother her and make her feel worse

Mar 05, 2023 2:28:27 AM +18056371315

So you've been going through tough times for 5 years?

Mar 05, 2023 2:28:31 AM Me

Agreed for her father on my own, and found that really strange

Mar 05, 2023 2:28:49 AM Me

Agreed equals I grieved

Mar 05, 2023 2:29:27 AM +18056371315

Understood.

Mar 05, 2023 2:29:36 AM Me

Things weren’t that great before 2018 either again I just bit my lip and never spoke up because I didn’t want to tip the apple cart

Mar 05, 2023 2:30:01 AM Me

You know somebody gets used to having their way all the time and then, when you suddenly speak up, they really don’t like it

Mar 05, 2023 2:30:03 AM +18056371315

So tough times have been going on for longer than 5 years?

Mar 05, 2023 2:30:34 AM Me

It was decidedly different after her father passed, but before 2018, I was feeling ignored and forgotten

Mar 05, 2023 2:31:02 AM Me

I can go back to 2014

Mar 05, 2023 2:31:31 AM Me

Her sabbatical year. She had a ton of free time and I thought that we would get to spend a lot of time together. But we didn’t. I never said anything because again I didn’t wanna seem like a whiny crybaby.

Mar 05, 2023 2:32:17 AM Me

I had a stigma with coming to Liz with anything related to me appearing week. I see her as despising weakness and me coming to her begging for attention sex anything seems incredibly weak.

Mar 05, 2023 2:34:55 AM Me

I am a touchy Feely person. I like hugs and holding hands and I was made to feel like wanting hugs was a bad thing. All the things that I liked to do, spooning in bed getting a hug every day or just getting kisses. Little things like that that normal people do in relationships. All of that got shut down years ago

Mar 05, 2023 2:36:35 AM (Read by you after 1 second) +18056371315

So I know I'm biased here (Liz has been my friend since I was 16) so I'm speaking as a biased friend here, but I feel like there is a focus on blame here (Liz being blamed for not giving you what you wanted emotionally). My feeling is that people have the right to set emotional and physical boundaries where they want them, to feel emotionally safe...even if it hurts other people's feelings. David had the right to set his boundaries, even if I wanted more closeness and affection. It hurt me that he was distant, but it was also his right to set that boundary...even if it hurt me.

Mar 05, 2023 2:37:39 AM Me

I don’t disagree with you at all there. But put that in context of somebody dealing with major depressive disorder and feeling suicidal. They have a hard time understanding boundaries.

Mar 05, 2023 2:38:09 AM +18056371315

Part of me respecting David was honoring his boundaries without making him feel bad or guilty about it.

Mar 05, 2023 2:38:37 AM +18056371315

I wasn't perfect, but I tried to correct myself when I overstepped

Mar 05, 2023 2:38:51 AM Me

That’s just it. I was never told with the boundaries were until after I had across them, so help me out there.

Mar 05, 2023 2:39:07 AM Me

How can I know what a boundary is when someone doesn’t communicate that to me?

Mar 05, 2023 2:39:21 AM Me

How do I know they’re making decisions about my future without my knowledge

Mar 05, 2023 2:39:44 AM +18056371315

Even if I'd been depressed (I was for a while), it wouldn't take away David's right to his boundaries.

Mar 05, 2023 2:40:19 AM Me

I’ll try the comparison here but I never took away. Liz is right to her boundaries. She could do whatever the hell she wanted in this relationship

Mar 05, 2023 2:40:39 AM +18056371315

David never specifically verbalized his boundaries...I observed them and respected them.

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Mar 05, 2023 2:43:52 AM ⇲ Me

Very much the same in my relationship with Liz. But if she has a boundary, she doesn’t want me bumping into she hast to speak up. I can’t read minds.

Mar 05, 2023 2:40:45 AM Me

She had all the power in this relationship, she wore the pants

Mar 05, 2023 2:41:19 AM +18056371315

I reached out to cuddle, he recoiled...I realized he didn't want to cuddle and respected that.

Mar 05, 2023 2:41:50 AM Me

i’ve done nothing but respect Elizabeth, and give her everything she has ever wanted, or asked for in this relationship. I cannot say it’s been reciprocal

Mar 05, 2023 2:42:17 AM Me

Joanna she emotionally and psychologically abused me for years

Mar 05, 2023 2:42:45 AM +18056371315

Ultimately we did talk and I also realized 15 years of him letting me know (through behavior) that he wanted different things was enough...so I left.

Mar 05, 2023 2:42:51 AM Me

She doesn’t want to hear that and I don’t think anybody wants to hear that but that is my reality and that has been my life. Now I’m speaking up about it and people don’t wanna hear that.

Mar 05, 2023 2:43:38 AM +18056371315

If she has abused you for years, then is it time to end things?

Mar 05, 2023 2:45:07 AM ⇲ Me

No, because I took a vow for better for worse, for richer for poorer, good times, and bad till death do us part. I take those vows really seriously even though I may not be religious. I am committed to Elizabeth, and I still love her with all my heart.

Mar 05, 2023 2:43:52 AM ⇱ Me

Very much the same in my relationship with Liz. But if she has a boundary, she doesn’t want me bumping into she hast to speak up. I can’t read minds.
This message responded to an earlier message.

Mar 05, 2023 2:44:23 AM (Read by you after 1 second) +18056371315

Has she verbalized a boundary recently?

Mar 05, 2023 2:44:36 AM +18056371315

Has she told you what she wants for the future?

Mar 05, 2023 2:45:07 AM ⇱ Me

No, because I took a vow for better for worse, for richer for poorer, good times, and bad till death do us part. I take those vows really seriously even though I may not be religious. I am committed to Elizabeth, and I still love her with all my heart.
This message responded to an earlier message.

Mar 05, 2023 2:45:40 AM Me

Every family has people who have issues. But Family doesn’t give up on each other. They help each other get better and they get through things together. That’s what makes relationships and family stronger. They don’t give up on each other.

Mar 05, 2023 2:45:50 AM +18056371315

If she wants to end the marriage, do you feel she has the right to make that decision?

Mar 05, 2023 2:49:41 AM ⇲ Me

I feel that you have to honor your vows and try to heal and reconcile whatever differences there may be. That’s what being married is it’s about learning how to work through hard shit. We’ve never had to really work through anything. Super hard in our marriage. It seems like now when the going gets tough she’s bailing. I find it ironic that if it were triathlon, challenging her this way, she would double down and kick its ass. But in this part of her life, she’s just giving up it doesn’t make sense.

Mar 05, 2023 2:50:11 AM ⇲ Me

She’s not even tried at all in therapy. She came in to the session and basically said I wanna divorce. There is no compromise. We’re way out of that.

Mar 05, 2023 2:46:17 AM +18056371315

Not just her, but anyone

Mar 05, 2023 2:46:27 AM +18056371315

Did I have the right to leave David?

Mar 05, 2023 2:47:42 AM ⇲ Me

If you both agree that’s best , then, yes

Mar 05, 2023 2:46:53 AM Me

I am being given up on. I begged Elizabeth in the deepest, darkest part of my depression with tears in my eyes I begged her not to give up on me. I pleaded with her not to give up on me, because I knew how terrible I was being an how depressed I was. She promised me she wouldn’t give up on me. I remember her saying that to me vividly. And look where I am now

Mar 05, 2023 2:47:42 AM ⇱ Me

If you both agree that’s best , then, yes
This message responded to an earlier message.

Mar 05, 2023 2:48:28 AM (Read by you after 1 minute, 13 seconds) +18056371315

Bert, are you open to me being really straight with you and giving you my honest opinion (given that I am biased as Liz's longtime friend)?

Mar 05, 2023 2:48:46 AM (Read by you after 55 seconds) +18056371315

What if David hadn't agreed?

Mar 05, 2023 2:48:58 AM (Read by you after 43 seconds) +18056371315

Would I have had to stay till he said?

Mar 05, 2023 2:49:41 AM ⇱ Me

I feel that you have to honor your vows and try to heal and reconcile whatever differences there may be. That’s what being married is it’s about learning how to work through hard shit. We’ve never had to really work through anything. Super hard in our marriage. It seems like now when the going gets tough she’s bailing. I find it ironic that if it were triathlon, challenging her this way, she would double down and kick its ass. But in this part of her life, she’s just giving up it doesn’t make sense.
This message responded to an earlier message.

Mar 05, 2023 2:50:11 AM ⇱ Me

She’s not even tried at all in therapy. She came in to the session and basically said I wanna divorce. There is no compromise. We’re way out of that.
This message responded to an earlier message.

Mar 05, 2023 2:50:45 AM +18056371315

But you said things have been hard for over 5 years...so she's not bailing at the first sign of troue at all.

Mar 05, 2023 2:52:32 AM ⇲ Me

It’s been hard for me, not hard for her. She was too focused on training and everything else I was forgotten she told me that she thought the relationship in marriage was great, and she had no idea that I feel abandoned.

Mar 05, 2023 2:53:35 AM ⇲ Me

She is bailing. Things did not get difficult until I went into a major depression in the middle of Covid. Then everything came to a head in July then I disappeared to give her space and time as she asked for. Then I came back and gave her more time because Kona was coming up and I didn’t want to bother her before she was doing that. So now here I am trying to go in to counseling with her for basically the first time in our marriage and she walks in saying I wanna divorce. How the hell do you work with that?

Mar 05, 2023 2:51:23 AM +18056371315

Trouble, not troue

Mar 05, 2023 2:52:12 AM (Read by you after 2 seconds) +18056371315

What if David hadn't agreed? Would I have had to stay till he said ok?

Mar 05, 2023 2:52:32 AM ⇱ Me

It’s been hard for me, not hard for her. She was too focused on training and everything else I was forgotten she told me that she thought the relationship in marriage was great, and she had no idea that I feel abandoned.
This message responded to an earlier message.

Mar 05, 2023 2:53:35 AM ⇱ Me

She is bailing. Things did not get difficult until I went into a major depression in the middle of Covid. Then everything came to a head in July then I disappeared to give her space and time as she asked for. Then I came back and gave her more time because Kona was coming up and I didn’t want to bother her before she was doing that. So now here I am trying to go in to counseling with her for basically the first time in our marriage and she walks in saying I wanna divorce. How the hell do you work with that?
This message responded to an earlier message.

Mar 05, 2023 2:54:16 AM +18056371315

Covid started 3 years ago

Mar 05, 2023 2:54:56 AM ⇲ Me

This July will be two years since we’ve been separated

Mar 05, 2023 2:54:25 AM Me

She’s gone from. I thought the marriage was fine too. I want a divorce without really explaining or making any sense.

Mar 05, 2023 2:54:30 AM +18056371315

That's not bailing imho

Mar 05, 2023 2:54:44 AM +18056371315

That's 3 years of trying, no?

Mar 05, 2023 2:54:56 AM ⇱ Me

This July will be two years since we’ve been separated
This message responded to an earlier message.

Mar 05, 2023 2:55:15 AM Me

There was no trying

Mar 05, 2023 2:55:21 AM (Read by you after 1 second) +18056371315

You just said this... She’s gone from. I thought the marriage was fine too. I want a divorce without really explaining or making any sense.

Mar 05, 2023 2:55:31 AM Me

You can think it’s not bailing, but she didn’t try and hasn’t tried at all

Mar 05, 2023 2:55:50 AM +18056371315

Did you just write that you want a divorce (above)?

Mar 05, 2023 2:56:34 AM Me

Sorry

Mar 05, 2023 2:56:39 AM Me

That was meant to say

Mar 05, 2023 2:56:57 AM +18056371315

Are you open to me being really honest with you and giving you my blunt opinion (given that I am biased as Liz's longtime friend)?

Mar 05, 2023 2:57:22 AM Me

She’s gone from, “I thought the marriage was fine, to I want to divorce” without really explaining or making any sense

Mar 05, 2023 2:57:49 AM Me

You don’t have to give me your blunt opinion. I know this is stubborn I know she’s made her decision and that’s what she’s gonna do. She always does what she wants to do.

Mar 05, 2023 2:59:00 AM +18056371315

This is biased of me, but I feel like you are focused on her transgressions only.

Mar 05, 2023 2:59:23 AM Me

She has changed in a way that I can’t understand in the past year

Mar 05, 2023 2:59:56 AM Me

My transgression is my mental illness

Mar 05, 2023 3:00:29 AM Me

But I have that in check now and it will never get out of control over again in my life because if it does, I’m a deadman

Mar 05, 2023 3:06:55 AM +18056371315

Ugh, I just wrote a long text and it somehow disappeared

Mar 05, 2023 3:08:24 AM Me

I’ve lived my entire life dysregulated, and did not know that until this past year. And I experienced what being regulated feels like which was surreal for me. My point being that I am not driven by fight or flight anymore. I am home and centered in a way that I’ve never been in my life.

Mar 05, 2023 3:08:56 AM Me

I’ve gone beyond, just getting my depression under control and have literally changed my mental state and way of being

Mar 05, 2023 3:09:21 AM Me

Sadly, I find that the truth Elizabeth believes and clings to makes her unavailable to hear or experience anything new.

Mar 05, 2023 3:10:20 AM +18056371315

In a nutshell, I wonder if it feels to you like you're going in circles trying to figure out what is fair, what's not, who did what, etc. That seems like a lot of energy possibly going nowhere? Does this just boil down to you deciding if you believe Liz has the right to end the marriage even if you don't want to?

Mar 05, 2023 3:10:31 AM Me

She will continue to look at me and see me as the old depressed, Bert, and not a reinvented new Bert, who is the best Bert he’s ever been.

Mar 05, 2023 3:10:40 AM Me

She’s gonna miss out on the best version of me

Mar 05, 2023 3:11:23 AM Me

No, it’s not about me deciding what right Liz has

Mar 05, 2023 3:12:00 AM Me

What it boils down to is that I’ve been treated unfairly for years, and now I would like to go into therapy and talk about that with her

Mar 05, 2023 3:12:32 AM Me

And I would like to talk about everything that happened all through the Covid times, but she’s not willing to do it. She shows up in sessions, but she is unwilling to try to heal.

Mar 05, 2023 3:12:34 AM +18056371315

But if she doesn't want that, do you feel she has a right to say no?

Mar 05, 2023 3:13:28 AM ⇲ Me

What about me? What about what I want? I’ve always deferred to her work and what she wants.

Mar 05, 2023 3:12:53 AM Me

And if she can’t heal, then I can’t be in the same space as her. And she will never see me on the face of the Earth again.

Mar 05, 2023 3:13:12 AM +18056371315

Does she have a right to say no to therapy, no to discussions about the past, etc?

Mar 05, 2023 3:13:28 AM ⇱ Me

What about me? What about what I want? I’ve always deferred to her work and what she wants.
This message responded to an earlier message.

Mar 05, 2023 3:13:40 AM Me

How about I get what I want for once

Mar 05, 2023 3:14:45 AM (Read by you after 1 second) +18056371315

You retain the right to control your body too...but so does she.

Mar 05, 2023 3:15:06 AM Me

I how did this get to be about controlling my body I’m not talking about that

Mar 05, 2023 3:15:32 AM +18056371315

You have the right not to be in the space with anyone you don't want to be with.

Mar 05, 2023 3:16:22 AM Me

How about the literally hundreds of times I was rejected by Liz? She has always been in control and always gotten her way. Literally this might be the first time that I’m asking to get my way in this relationship and I can’t get it.

Mar 05, 2023 3:17:00 AM Me

I am being rejected in the hardest way possible to me. This is a giant fuck you get out of my life.

Mar 05, 2023 3:17:36 AM (Read by you after 2 seconds) +18056371315

Talking in therapy involves her body being in a particular place, doing a particular thing (therapy). I believe she has the right to decide where her body goes and what her body does…as do you. You have the right to decide if you go to therapy or not.

Mar 05, 2023 3:18:05 AM ⇲ Me

Oh

Mar 05, 2023 3:18:05 AM ⇱ Me

Oh
This message responded to an earlier message.

Mar 05, 2023 3:18:48 AM +18056371315

My biased blunt opinion (as a human and her friend for about 40 years): she has not gotten her way all the time. That is just not true…and if it were true, all the more reason for you to walk away.

Mar 05, 2023 3:20:20 AM ⇲ Me

Since 2018, that is definitely been the case nothing but her way

Mar 05, 2023 3:20:00 AM (Read by you after 1 second) +18056371315

But I don’t want to argue over that, because that seems like wasted energy.

Mar 05, 2023 3:20:20 AM ⇱ Me

Since 2018, that is definitely been the case nothing but her way
This message responded to an earlier message.

Mar 05, 2023 3:21:12 AM Me

The thing that bothers me is that there’s so many things that do not make any sense and are not logical to me. I have a hard time agreeing with things when I don’t understand them and that’s my big problem in the situation I’m not fully understanding why

Mar 05, 2023 3:21:51 AM Me

“I am done“ is just not enough of an answer or a try after 30 years together

Mar 05, 2023 3:22:42 AM +18056371315

It seems to boil down to: do you feel she has the right to make decisions about therapy and her future, no matter what? Do you believe women (and men) have the right to make decisions about engaging in therapy or not? Can a woman or man end a marriage even if their partner has been perfect in every way?

Mar 05, 2023 3:22:50 AM Me

And you’re free to choose to be done, I just see it as a big, weak cop out and somebody that lacks integrity, and somebody that lacks the ability to keep their promises to those they love.

Mar 05, 2023 3:23:35 AM (Read by you after 1 second) +18056371315

So you’re saying I’m a big, weak cop out for ending things with David?

Mar 05, 2023 3:23:37 AM Me

You ask if a woman or a man can end of marriage even if their partner has been perfect in anyway? Absolutely, but they’re also a big fucking asshole.

Mar 05, 2023 3:23:44 AM +18056371315

That I lack integrity?

Mar 05, 2023 3:23:58 AM +18056371315

That I lack the ability to keep promises?

Mar 05, 2023 3:24:17 AM +18056371315

So I’m a big fucking asshole?

Mar 05, 2023 3:24:30 AM Me

When the other person in your relationship wants to work things out, and you are unwilling to do that after you made a promise in your vows, I see that as not honoring your vows

Mar 05, 2023 3:24:53 AM +18056371315

So who is the b f a, me or David?

Mar 05, 2023 3:25:04 AM +18056371315

What if neither of us are?

Mar 05, 2023 3:25:31 AM Me

Yes

Mar 05, 2023 3:25:37 AM Me

Neither are

Mar 05, 2023 3:26:06 AM +18056371315

Also, there are many vows that come before “till death do us part” The vows part is actually all the stuff that comes before (honor, respect…).

Mar 05, 2023 3:26:17 AM Me

And u r not an ssshole at all !!

Mar 05, 2023 3:26:28 AM +18056371315

So why are neither David nor I BFAs, but Liz is?

Mar 05, 2023 3:26:35 AM Me

I did not mean to insinuate that towards you in any way, shape or form Joanna I’m so sorry

Mar 05, 2023 3:27:25 AM +18056371315

It’s ok, I know you didn’t mean that David (or I) are BFAs

Mar 05, 2023 3:27:36 AM +18056371315

I just think that neither is Liz (or you).

Mar 05, 2023 3:28:03 AM Me

You mentioned the things about honor and respect, and that’s what I don’t understand Joanna I’ve completely honored my wife and my vows, and I am being asked for a divorce

Mar 05, 2023 3:28:25 AM Me

I am the one getting the sword stuck in my heart, and I feel like nobody hears me or understands me

Mar 05, 2023 3:29:09 AM (Read by you after 1 second) +18056371315

Again, I feel like she has also had a sword through her heart, but I feel it’s a misuse of energy to argue that point.

Mar 05, 2023 3:30:08 AM ⇲ Me

It would be great if she would talk to me and let me know that because I had no idea until you just said that. Joanna, she doesn’t talk to me. I have no idea what’s going on with her. I find out from other people what she’s thinking or doing I am a ghost to her.

Mar 05, 2023 3:29:13 AM Me

I gave up my marriage to triathlon and Kona

Mar 05, 2023 3:30:08 AM ⇱ Me

It would be great if she would talk to me and let me know that because I had no idea until you just said that. Joanna, she doesn’t talk to me. I have no idea what’s going on with her. I find out from other people what she’s thinking or doing I am a ghost to her.
This message responded to an earlier message.

Mar 05, 2023 3:30:27 AM +18056371315

If I try to say how I feel you have hurt her, it will only make you feel angry and defensive. You won’t be able to hear me. You’ll only argue back and try to convince me I’m wrong for feeling that way. So trying to say she has been hurt too, terribly hurt, is futile.

Mar 05, 2023 3:31:26 AM ⇲ Me

That’s just sit Joanna. Nobody has clearly told me how I’ve hurt her. She’s in capable of telling me specifically how I’ve hurt her. So I’m ridiculously confused and don’t understand.

Mar 05, 2023 3:30:36 AM Me

She hasn’t had a conversation with me in over two years

Mar 05, 2023 3:31:26 AM ⇱ Me

That’s just sit Joanna. Nobody has clearly told me how I’ve hurt her. She’s in capable of telling me specifically how I’ve hurt her. So I’m ridiculously confused and don’t understand.
This message responded to an earlier message.

Mar 05, 2023 3:32:08 AM Me

I need to understand, but she will not talk

Mar 05, 2023 3:32:28 AM Me

And I won’t get defensive or start arguing because I am not getting triggered by that anymore

Mar 05, 2023 3:32:55 AM Me

I have tools and skills to work on my triggers and I’m very good at it now it’s just that people don’t hang out with me so nobody knows that I am any different

Mar 05, 2023 3:33:34 AM Me

Everyone just thinks of me as incredibly sad, dark and depressed, worthless piece of shit. I mean, come on who wants to hang out with that guy

Mar 05, 2023 3:36:36 AM Me

Honestly, what I suspect is that something during the time of Covid when I was deeply and darkly depressed, triggered a fear in Elizabeth from her past. Specifically from her past with Tim and watching him lose his mind to schizophrenia. She was watching me disappear into depression, and fall into a hole, and I think that freaked her out and triggered old memories that she had an experienced in a long time. I suspect that having those memories come back being faced with someone you love who is melting in front of you would be an extremely traumatic experience just watching it happen let alone having the ability to do anything about it. But this is me just guessing at White might be going on with Liz because she doesn’t talk to me, she doesn’t share with me, so how can I know what she’s thinking or feeling or anything for that matter, when she just want acknowledge my existence, or communicate with me.

Mar 05, 2023 3:36:53 AM +18056371315

So here goes an exercise in futility…my guess is that none of this will land. It will only make you feel upset, which I really don’t want to do. And my guess is that you won’t validate that these things are real, and that some women might have left after just one of these hurtful things. But you are asking so as a friend (again, as a biased friend of hers for many years), here it is: I feel she was hurt by July 3, by having her sense of autonomy taken away that night, hurt by your drinking and using pot, and continuing to use it despite what happened July 3, hurt by whatever happened between you and Aidan that have made things so strained, and hurt by not having her boundaries respected — i.e., you not validating that she has a right to feel violated by July 3, that she should instead listen to you and your view of that night — and take on your view instead of being entitled to her own feelings about it.

Mar 05, 2023 3:40:49 AM ⇲ Me

I’m not sure what happened between me and Aidan? Aidan and I get along swimmingly he was here just the other day?

Mar 05, 2023 3:42:18 AM ⇲ Me

Also, the things you said after the Aidan thing are all new to me. Those are things that have not been shared with me.

Mar 05, 2023 3:37:41 AM +18056371315

Nobody, absolutely nobody thinks of you as worthless or a pos!!! Absolutely not true.

Mar 05, 2023 3:38:20 AM Me

I’m also having a hard time reconciling the fact that her brothers and her father have all let her down or disappointed her at some point in her life yet she’s able to show that mercy and love to them and not me. I am less than

Mar 05, 2023 3:40:13 AM (Read by you after 3 seconds) +18056371315

I cannot stress enough…you have never been worthless and never will be.

Mar 05, 2023 3:40:49 AM ⇱ Me

I’m not sure what happened between me and Aidan? Aidan and I get along swimmingly he was here just the other day?
This message responded to an earlier message.

Mar 05, 2023 3:41:14 AM (Read by you after 1 minute, 4 seconds) +18056371315

But again, rehashing July 3 is wasted energy and emotion.

Mar 05, 2023 3:42:18 AM ⇱ Me

Also, the things you said after the Aidan thing are all new to me. Those are things that have not been shared with me.
This message responded to an earlier message.

Mar 05, 2023 3:42:33 AM +18056371315

Bc, I keep coming back to: does a woman have the right to leave even a perfect spouse, without being deems a BFA. In my opinion, yes, she does. A man does too.

Mar 05, 2023 3:43:14 AM +18056371315

So I might be completely wrong about Aidan, but I thought I had observed a distance. Sorry, I was wrong about that.

Mar 05, 2023 3:43:36 AM +18056371315

Off topic and not needed.

Mar 05, 2023 3:44:17 AM +18056371315

Again,I keep coming back to: does a woman have the right to leave even a perfect spouse, without being a BFA?

Mar 05, 2023 3:44:42 AM +18056371315

I left a good man (David) and I am not a BFA.

Mar 05, 2023 3:45:04 AM Me

Really I am blown away Joanna, I have found out more about Liz and why she wanted to divorce with me in texting with you than I have from her

Mar 05, 2023 3:45:20 AM Me

This isn’t fair Joanna she’s divorcing me, and not sharing everything that is totally not fair

Mar 05, 2023 3:46:26 AM (Read by you after 1 second) +18056371315

You should take anything I say with skepticism, bc I’m not her and I’m not inside her mind.

Mar 05, 2023 3:46:27 AM Me

I know, for a fact, that part of what you shared with me is completely untrue. And again here I come back to feeling like Liz is divorcing me on things that aren’t even real

Mar 05, 2023 3:47:24 AM Me

That’s why we need to go to therapy and keep talking because none of this makes any sense and I don’t want to move forward until things make sense.

Mar 05, 2023 3:47:37 AM +18056371315

But again, lets say all of this is wrong. Let’s say everything I said is mistaken. Do you feel a person has the right to leave even a perfect spouse?

Mar 05, 2023 3:48:08 AM ⇲ Me

The question is kind of like me saying don’t I have the right to kill myself because I’m depressed

Mar 05, 2023 3:48:03 AM +18056371315

And do you feel someone has the right to decide if they want to engage in therapy or not?

Mar 05, 2023 3:49:11 AM ⇲ Me

If they’re in a marriage, they have an obligation to go to therapy in my opinion. For the very least to get closure.

Mar 05, 2023 3:48:08 AM ⇱ Me

The question is kind of like me saying don’t I have the right to kill myself because I’m depressed
This message responded to an earlier message.

Mar 05, 2023 3:48:44 AM +18056371315

I don’t see the parallel…can you explain how they are the same?

Mar 05, 2023 3:49:49 AM ⇲ Me

They are the same, and that I am autonomous, and I can make decisions for myself, and not give a shit about how it affects anyone else

Mar 05, 2023 3:49:11 AM ⇱ Me

If they’re in a marriage, they have an obligation to go to therapy in my opinion. For the very least to get closure.
This message responded to an earlier message.

Mar 05, 2023 3:49:32 AM +18056371315

So that’s where we disagree.

Mar 05, 2023 3:49:49 AM ⇱ Me

They are the same, and that I am autonomous, and I can make decisions for myself, and not give a shit about how it affects anyone else
This message responded to an earlier message.

Mar 05, 2023 3:50:02 AM Me

Like, maybe your kids

Mar 05, 2023 3:50:13 AM Me

Because that’s what I did

Mar 05, 2023 3:50:32 AM (Read by you after 1 second) +18056371315

Because that’s what I did? Not following?

Mar 05, 2023 3:50:35 AM Me

I put my needs behind the wellness of my family, and I have no regrets about that

Mar 05, 2023 3:50:54 AM Me

I chose my wife and my family twice in my life when facing suicide

Mar 05, 2023 3:51:10 AM Me

And now my wife is blowing up our family

Mar 05, 2023 3:51:36 AM +18056371315

Bert, please talk to someone (a therapist). I am begging you. When was this? How long ago were you feeling suicidal.

Mar 05, 2023 3:54:16 AM ⇲ Me

I didn’t suicidal since my first attempt at the age of 16 trying to put my moms serrated 10 inch steak knife through my stomach

Mar 05, 2023 3:53:16 AM Me

The fact that she’s unable to carry the burden of her own pain and heal it properly, and instead pass her pain and suffering onto her kids and husband so they can carry it around for the rest of their lives

Mar 05, 2023 3:53:53 AM Me

It’s pathetic and kind of selfish

Mar 05, 2023 3:54:16 AM ⇱ Me

I didn’t suicidal since my first attempt at the age of 16 trying to put my moms serrated 10 inch steak knife through my stomach
This message responded to an earlier message.

Mar 05, 2023 3:54:42 AM Me

I’ve been, not I didn’t

Mar 05, 2023 3:55:14 AM Me

And please don’t worry about me. I’ve danced with the devil in the dark when he was trying to get me to jump across that suicide line and I didn’t do it.

Mar 05, 2023 3:56:39 AM Me

I’ve been depressed my entire life, it’s very sad to say that, but I can see it with absolute clarity and certainty. I know what I’m dealing with, and I know myself better than I ever have. And in fact, I am more confident, more empowered, and honestly the best version of myself I’ve ever been. It’s a goddamn shame Elizabeth is going to miss out on me. It’s too bad because the best was yet to come.

Mar 05, 2023 3:59:03 AM Me

I’ve never felt more clear about knowing my self, my behaviors my patterns, and I have a tool kit to deal with all of that bullshit. I’ve turned over every rock from my past, aired out my grievances and resolved shit from my childhood. All of that is put the bed. I have been psychologically reborn in many ways. In fact, one thing I know now is that I am an incredibly mentally strong motherfucker.

Mar 05, 2023 3:59:36 AM Me

And I feel far more free to speak my mind, I don’t withhold my thoughts anymore. I think, in some ways that bothers Elizabeth because she’s used to me being quiet and subservient.

Mar 05, 2023 4:00:54 AM Me

Again, I think back to what you wrote previously about some of Elizabeth’s reasoning for wanting to divorce me and so much of it is in solid reasoning. It’s like what I said before the understanding she’s clinging to makes it unable for her to see or hear anything new.

Mar 05, 2023 4:01:03 AM +18056371315

I would so love it if you saw someone (a therapist) to talk about that better future, where you’re empowered, confident, grounded, and the best version of yourself.

Mar 05, 2023 4:01:24 AM Me

There is no future there’s only right now

Mar 05, 2023 4:01:38 AM Me

I live for now, not for the future

Mar 05, 2023 4:02:02 AM +18056371315

Yes, but every step we take now heads in one direction or another.

Mar 05, 2023 4:02:23 AM +18056371315

What steps will take you to that better future?

Mar 05, 2023 4:02:30 AM Me

I’m just thinking to that it’s really sad because I feel like Elizabeth is never going to be able to speak with me ever again like a normal person. She goes to me now, so why is anything going to be different?

Mar 05, 2023 4:02:53 AM (Read by you after 1 second) +18056371315

That’s forecasting.

Mar 05, 2023 4:03:00 AM +18056371315

None of us is psychic.

Mar 05, 2023 4:03:06 AM +18056371315

We can’t see the future.

Mar 05, 2023 4:03:19 AM Me

I already have a six category 32 item to do list that is going to get me out of this house and separate all of our stuff that is intertwined

Mar 05, 2023 4:03:32 AM Me

And I’m not happy about any of it

Mar 05, 2023 4:03:39 AM +18056371315

There was a time I couldn’t see being friends with David.

Mar 05, 2023 4:03:43 AM Me

I’m basically just gonna take my socks and underwear and leave everything here

Mar 05, 2023 4:03:50 AM (Read by you after 1 second) +18056371315

But I hope he’s in my life forever now 9David).

Mar 05, 2023 4:04:13 AM Me

I highly doubt that Liz will be my friend, in fact, I highly doubt that I will talk to her ever again

Mar 05, 2023 4:04:34 AM Me

It’s rather sad because it’s gonna fuck up all future family things like if the boys get married or something

Mar 05, 2023 4:04:35 AM +18056371315

I disagree, but again I’m biased,

Mar 05, 2023 4:04:53 AM Me

I mean, why should I be nice when somebody gave me the big fuck you

Mar 05, 2023 4:05:01 AM +18056371315

I see a future where the hurt and anger is gone, and you can coparent peacefully.

Mar 05, 2023 4:05:08 AM Me

I have zero reason to be nice after being fucked over

Mar 05, 2023 4:05:21 AM Me

It’s funny everybody says they see that but I don’t see it at all

Mar 05, 2023 4:05:56 AM (Read by you after 1 second) +18056371315

I couldn’t see being friends with David either…

Mar 05, 2023 4:06:10 AM +18056371315

But I consider him my friend…and I hope he agrees.

Mar 05, 2023 4:06:35 AM Me

Joanna and Liz doesn’t give me the time of day, she goes me it’s like I don’t fucking exist

Mar 05, 2023 4:06:47 AM Me

I am a ghost to Liz

Mar 05, 2023 4:06:58 AM Me

And I have been for a very, very long time

Mar 05, 2023 4:07:18 AM Me

I mean, what kind of person do you have to be to be that cruel to somebody to pretend that they don’t fucking exist

Mar 05, 2023 4:07:28 AM Me

Right to their face

Mar 05, 2023 4:07:47 AM +18056371315

Focus on what’s on the road in front of you…it’s hard to move forward if you’re always looking through the rear view mirror.

Mar 05, 2023 4:08:27 AM ⇲ Me

I’m not looking in the rearview mirror. I’m looking at how I’m being treated right now.

Mar 05, 2023 4:08:04 AM Me

Maybe when I can stop being disrespected like that, I could give somebody the time of day, but until then persona non-Grata

Mar 05, 2023 4:08:27 AM ⇱ Me

I’m not looking in the rearview mirror. I’m looking at how I’m being treated right now.
This message responded to an earlier message.

Mar 05, 2023 4:08:47 AM +18056371315

But when David refused to talk to me, he wasn’t disrespecting me, he was respecting his own boundaries.

Mar 05, 2023 4:09:19 AM ⇲ Me

| Is that to mean that Liz has been respecting your boundaries for 5+ years?
Edited 57 seconds later | Is that to mean that Liz has been disrespecting boundaries for 5+ years?

Mar 05, 2023 4:08:48 AM Me

I’ve been moving forward for two years nonstop and I ain’t stopping

Mar 05, 2023 4:09:08 AM +18056371315

I just had this conversation with Sherry the other night, about Sherry and Casey.

Mar 05, 2023 4:09:19 AM ⇱ Me

| Is that to mean that Liz has been respecting your boundaries for 5+ years?
Edited 57 seconds later | Is that to mean that Liz has been disrespecting boundaries for 5+ years?

This message responded to an earlier message.

Mar 05, 2023 4:10:17 AM (Read by you after 1 second) +18056371315

That’s to mean that when David ghosted me in conversations, that was his right. Even if it hurt me,

Mar 05, 2023 4:10:35 AM ⇲ Me

To your face

Mar 05, 2023 4:10:35 AM +18056371315

Sherry felt shut down by Casey and I told her the same thing.

Mar 05, 2023 4:10:35 AM ⇱ Me

To your face
This message responded to an earlier message.

Mar 05, 2023 4:10:57 AM +18056371315

Casey has a right to not talk to someone, even if that person is her mom.

Mar 05, 2023 4:11:07 AM +18056371315

You have a right to ghost your dad if you want to.

Mar 05, 2023 4:11:11 AM +18056371315

Or not.

Mar 05, 2023 4:11:15 AM +18056371315

Your choice,

Mar 05, 2023 4:12:03 AM Me

I mean what I’m hearing is people just have to be OK with other what others decide to do no matter who they hurt or other ramifications. Everybody just hast to take it on the chin because somebody is unwilling, unable or too immature to compromise.

Mar 05, 2023 4:12:42 AM +18056371315

I see it differently (not as immaturity, but as taking care of one’s own self)…

Mar 05, 2023 4:13:05 AM Me

I kind of see it as being selfish

Mar 05, 2023 4:13:29 AM +18056371315

So Casey has a right to not talk to Sherry, even if it hurts Sherry. Just as you have a right to not call your dad, even if he wants you to.

Mar 05, 2023 4:13:32 AM Me

I get that people need to take care of their needs, but if you have kids or are in a relationship, you got to work shit out that’s part of being on a team

Mar 05, 2023 4:15:05 AM (Read by you after 1 second) +18056371315

I think coparenting is good and working as a team for one’s kids.

Mar 05, 2023 4:15:27 AM Me

I have a right to decide not to coparent

Mar 05, 2023 4:15:38 AM Me

I don’t wanna do that

Mar 05, 2023 4:16:02 AM Me

And I’m not gonna explain myself, or makes sense to anybody that’s just my decision

Reactions:

Laughed by Me

Mar 05, 2023 4:16:03 AM +18056371315

But since many marriages seem to end in divorce these days, I think millions of people have figured out how to coparent peacefully even if not together.

Mar 05, 2023 4:16:29 AM +18056371315

Glad you were joking there.

Mar 05, 2023 4:17:01 AM Me

I know you’re trying to be positive and upbeat and put a positive spin on all this, but this is all incredibly fucking depressing no matter what way I look at it. My wife is telling me fuck off. That is all I hear

Mar 05, 2023 4:17:14 AM (Read by you after 1 second) +18056371315

Since parenting kids till they reach 18 is different. Since they are legally children.

Mar 05, 2023 4:17:52 AM Me

The way I look at it is she didn’t care enough about me before, because if she did, she would’ve helped me with my depression instead, she just left me to my own devices

Mar 05, 2023 4:18:48 AM Me

There are some things and some pain you don’t get over

Mar 05, 2023 4:19:05 AM Me

And that’s not a matter of clinging are holding on to something that’s because the wound is really deep

Mar 05, 2023 4:19:20 AM +18056371315

So did I tell David to “fuck off” because I separated from him? I don’t think I did…I think I said “I see I’m not happy together with you. I don’t think it serves you or me to stay here, unhappy. I’m going to leave and hope you find happiness, and that I do too.”

Mar 05, 2023 4:19:41 AM Me

I am a Taurus. I am committed and loyal as hell, but when you cross me, you’re dead to me.

Mar 05, 2023 4:20:05 AM (Read by you after 1 second) +18056371315

Look through the front window, not the rear view mirror.

Mar 05, 2023 4:20:14 AM Me

The way I’m being treated ghosting the disrespect, that’s not fuck off to you?

Mar 05, 2023 4:20:27 AM +18056371315

Don’t use astrology as a reason for not coparenting peacefully.

Mar 05, 2023 4:20:32 AM +18056371315

No.

Mar 05, 2023 4:20:36 AM Me

I am the father of her children, and she won’t even fucking talk to me, and somehow I’m supposed to be magic coparent?

Mar 05, 2023 4:20:38 AM +18056371315

Not a fuck off at all.

Mar 05, 2023 4:22:43 AM Me

I apologize for the swearing. Seriously I’m sorry.

Mar 05, 2023 4:25:02 AM (Read by you after 1 second) +18056371315

I think shades of grey tend to be more reality-based than thinking in black and white terms. People (and situations) aren’t black and white. They aren’t all good or bad. I once thought I would never speak to Meg again (and she was like a sister to me). I decided “hey, you sleep with my boyfriends, that’s a big fuck you, so I will never speak to you again.” But I was wrong. Meg is human just like the rest of us. Kind and trying her best (even if it crushed me) just like the rest of us. She is human. We are all human. Now whenever I see her, my heart feels so happy. We are at peace with each other. Sister who didnt speak for a while, but now can see we are the same people who enjoyed hanging out 40 years ago…only even calmer and better today.

Mar 05, 2023 4:25:20 AM Me

I never denied Liz her version of the story nor did I ever want her to believe that my version was the only version that’s just some made up shit. I remember her telling me that she thought I was walking around as though I didn’t hurt her. I knew that I hurt her. I just didn’t know how to heal it.

Mar 05, 2023 4:25:24 AM +18056371315

No apology needed…I know this is really difficult to talk about.

Mar 05, 2023 4:26:00 AM +18056371315

Liz is human.

Mar 05, 2023 4:26:05 AM +18056371315

You are human.

Mar 05, 2023 4:26:10 AM +18056371315

No one is a villain.

Mar 05, 2023 4:26:12 AM Me

Why can’t Liz see that I am human

Mar 05, 2023 4:26:33 AM Me

I’ve made mistakes

Mar 05, 2023 4:26:49 AM +18056371315

We all have.

Mar 05, 2023 4:26:57 AM +18056371315

Part of being human.

Mar 05, 2023 4:27:21 AM +18056371315

Be less hard on yourself and less hard on Liz. See your humanity and hers. Please.

Mar 05, 2023 4:27:54 AM Me

And I’ve owned my mistakes, but somehow she’s unwilling to work with me to heal things between us And after 30 years, she’s made little to no good faith, effort at all.

Mar 05, 2023 4:28:10 AM +18056371315

I used to lie in bed having panic attacks and crying after Meg and I stopped speaking. It does get better. If you let it.

Mar 05, 2023 4:28:43 AM ⇲ Me

I’ve been crying in bed every night for two years anticipating Liz divorcing me

Mar 05, 2023 4:28:17 AM Me

To me that smacks of disrespect and uncaring coldness

Mar 05, 2023 4:28:27 AM +18056371315

Rear view mirror.

Mar 05, 2023 4:28:43 AM ⇱ Me

I’ve been crying in bed every night for two years anticipating Liz divorcing me
This message responded to an earlier message.

Mar 05, 2023 4:29:11 AM Me

It can’t be rearview when that’s what I’m experiencing now

Mar 05, 2023 4:29:31 AM +18056371315

Looking back at past wrongs = rear view mirror.

Mar 05, 2023 4:29:37 AM Me

She goes to me she doesn’t talk to me she’s distant she’s cold there’s nothing positive

Mar 05, 2023 4:30:06 AM +18056371315

Looking forward with humanity and compassion (for yourself and Liz) = looking at the road ahead.

Mar 05, 2023 4:31:24 AM Me

compassion is what I brought back with me from New York. My heart has been open, my mind has been open. I have been more than willing to do whatever it takes to heal the rift between us. I am the one looking forward it’s somebody else who is clinging to the past and won’t let go of it and it’s facing the decisions about their in their children’s future on looking backward

Mar 05, 2023 4:31:53 AM Me

When I came back from New York, with an open heart, I was met with silence and ghosting

Mar 05, 2023 4:32:13 AM Me

I was looking to return and begin the process of healing with Elizabeth to try to understand her and understand where I fell short as a husband

Mar 05, 2023 4:32:24 AM Me

But she didn’t give me that opportunity, and still will not give me that opportunity.

Mar 05, 2023 4:32:29 AM (Read by you after 1 second) +18056371315

I don’t hear her talking about past wrongs…I think she is looking at the greater good.

Mar 05, 2023 4:32:48 AM Me

That’s great, I don’t hear her talking at all

Mar 05, 2023 4:33:03 AM Me

I have no idea what’s going on in her mind or what she’s thinking about because she doesn’t talk to me

Mar 05, 2023 4:33:16 AM Me

How can I have a relationship, a coparenting one when somebody doesn’t talk to me?

Mar 05, 2023 4:33:42 AM Me

Until she can let go, of whatever is stopping her from talking to me…

Mar 05, 2023 4:33:47 AM +18056371315

My guess is she 100% believes you deserve someone who makes you happy. And that she isn’t that person.

Mar 05, 2023 4:34:18 AM ⇲ Me

She is that person she just forgot

Mar 05, 2023 4:33:54 AM Me

You might want to give her that little holding onto something from the past speech because she’s doing it

Mar 05, 2023 4:34:08 AM +18056371315

I don’t think she is.

Mar 05, 2023 4:35:39 AM ⇲ Me

Then, why won’t she talked to me. She can’t talk to me because of two things one she likes being in control and doesn’t want to lose control and to she gets frustrated with me because she can’t control me. If you need an example just look at how she controls Koda

Mar 05, 2023 4:35:56 AM ⇲ Me

Liz has even said to me that she hates not being in control

Mar 05, 2023 4:34:18 AM ⇱ Me

She is that person she just forgot
This message responded to an earlier message.

Mar 05, 2023 4:34:19 AM +18056371315

I think she wants you to have someone who can make you happy.

Mar 05, 2023 4:34:43 AM +18056371315

You said you’ve felt abused by her for years.

Mar 05, 2023 4:36:54 AM ⇲ Me

Yes, and I love her unconditionally and I’m willing to work with her on creating a new relationship. I don’t want to go to the past. I don’t want to go back to what it was, I want to invent a new relationship between us because we are both different now, and that’s what would have to happen.

Mar 05, 2023 4:35:19 AM +18056371315

I think she wants you to have someone you don’t feel abused by or ghosted/emotionally neglected by.

Mar 05, 2023 4:35:29 AM (Read by you after 1 second) +18056371315

Maybe?

Mar 05, 2023 4:35:39 AM ⇱ Me

Then, why won’t she talked to me. She can’t talk to me because of two things one she likes being in control and doesn’t want to lose control and to she gets frustrated with me because she can’t control me. If you need an example just look at how she controls Koda
This message responded to an earlier message.

Mar 05, 2023 4:35:56 AM ⇱ Me

Liz has even said to me that she hates not being in control
This message responded to an earlier message.

Mar 05, 2023 4:36:40 AM +18056371315

So someone who likes to always be in control might feel like you would be happier with someone else.

Mar 05, 2023 4:36:54 AM +18056371315

I don’t know.

Mar 05, 2023 4:36:54 AM ⇱ Me

Yes, and I love her unconditionally and I’m willing to work with her on creating a new relationship. I don’t want to go to the past. I don’t want to go back to what it was, I want to invent a new relationship between us because we are both different now, and that’s what would have to happen.
This message responded to an earlier message.

Mar 05, 2023 4:37:41 AM Me

She has this giant idea that she’s a bad wife and honestly if she literally paid attention to me for five minutes today, none of this would be happening right now

Mar 05, 2023 4:38:06 AM Me

I’m serious if I got a hug once in a while, a kiss, just the tiniest bit of attention or affection. I would be happy as a clam, but I got nothing.

Mar 05, 2023 4:38:21 AM +18056371315

Perhaps she has felt bad about not being able to make you happy for so long, and wants you to meet someone where it isn’t such a struggle for both of you? I don’t know…I haven’t asked her this. But again, this is wasted emotion/energy/speculation.

Mar 05, 2023 4:38:54 AM (Read by you after 1 second) +18056371315

Bc if she’s said she wants a divorce, in my humble opinion, she has a right to ask for that.

Mar 05, 2023 4:39:51 AM ⇲ Me

Yes, but do I have to give it when it’s not what I want because what I want is every bit is valid as what she wants my opinion, and what I want is of no less value

Mar 05, 2023 4:38:59 AM Me

For years, and I am willing to let all that go and move forward. Ideally, that’s what I would love because I love Elizabeth so very much and I wanted to be grandparents with her

Mar 05, 2023 4:39:09 AM +18056371315

Even if the marriage was perfect.

Mar 05, 2023 4:39:16 AM +18056371315

Which it wasn’t.

Mar 05, 2023 4:39:51 AM ⇱ Me

Yes, but do I have to give it when it’s not what I want because what I want is every bit is valid as what she wants my opinion, and what I want is of no less value
This message responded to an earlier message.

Mar 05, 2023 4:40:27 AM +18056371315

Yes, when someone asks for a divorce, the other person needs to grant it.

Mar 05, 2023 4:40:34 AM Me

That’s the part I don’t understand. It’s you know I’m being escorted to the guillotine here nobody is trying to help me save my marriage. Everybody just wants me to get my fucking head cut off.

Mar 05, 2023 4:41:13 AM Me

Why is nobody helping me try to save my marriage? All those people stupid our wedding, and made a promise that they would help us support us when we were facing tough times in our marriage and here we are.

Mar 05, 2023 4:41:35 AM Me

Stupid = stood

Mar 05, 2023 4:41:56 AM Me

I guess the wedding in the vows were nothing then just a bunch of show

Mar 05, 2023 4:42:13 AM +18056371315

It used to be different, but I believe legally these days one person can ask for it…it doesn’t have to be two people (but you’d have to check with an attorney). And no one needs to be to blame or have a reason that both sides accept. Isn’t that what they call “no fault divorce?”

Mar 05, 2023 4:43:03 AM Me

why doesn’t want I want matter? It reinforces that I don’t matter

Mar 05, 2023 4:43:10 AM +18056371315

It feels like you’re not seeing ways in which people have supported your relationship over the years.

Mar 05, 2023 4:43:57 AM ⇲ Me

Not really because I need to help right now

Mar 05, 2023 4:43:25 AM Me

If what I want, doesmy matter, then do I matter?

Mar 05, 2023 4:43:57 AM +18056371315

What you want matters. But it doesn’t supersede her right to decide who she’s married to.

Mar 05, 2023 4:44:24 AM ⇲ Me

And that supersedes my right to decide? We are already married after all.

Mar 05, 2023 4:43:57 AM ⇱ Me

Not really because I need to help right now
This message responded to an earlier message.

Mar 05, 2023 4:44:24 AM ⇱ Me

And that supersedes my right to decide? We are already married after all.
This message responded to an earlier message.

Mar 05, 2023 4:44:38 AM Me

That’s what I don’t get it somehow I’m just supposed to bend over grab the lube and take it up the ass here

Mar 05, 2023 4:44:44 AM (Read by you after 1 second) +18056371315

David’s desire to stay together did not supersede my right to decide whether I am married or not.

Mar 05, 2023 4:45:13 AM +18056371315

Yes, my right to decide who I am married to (or not) supersedes David’s feelings of hurt.

Mar 05, 2023 4:45:24 AM +18056371315

In my opinion.

Mar 05, 2023 4:45:35 AM Me

I understand, but what I don’t understand is why all this is happening again. Elizabeth needs to tell me herself and needs to do it in person and be very clear and explain this to me.

Mar 05, 2023 4:45:39 AM +18056371315

And I believe the law’s opinion (but you’d have to ask an attorney).

Mar 05, 2023 4:45:50 AM Me

She can decide whatever she wants, but she has to look me in the eye and do it

Mar 05, 2023 4:46:15 AM +18056371315

Ask an attorney if people have the right to divorce someone even if their spouse doesn’t want it. I don’t know for sure, I’m not an attorney.

Mar 05, 2023 4:46:30 AM +18056371315

But I think they do?

Mar 05, 2023 4:46:37 AM Me

I’m not contacting an attorney anytime soon

Mar 05, 2023 4:46:49 AM +18056371315

I meant to settle the question you’re asking.

Mar 05, 2023 4:46:55 AM Me

Oh

Mar 05, 2023 4:47:22 AM +18056371315

You’re asking if someone has the right to end a marriage even if their spouse disagrees.

Mar 05, 2023 4:47:31 AM +18056371315

I think the law says yes, but I’m not sure.

Mar 05, 2023 4:47:49 AM Me

I can Google it

Mar 05, 2023 4:48:02 AM +18056371315

Good point.

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Mar 05, 2023 4:48:53 AM Me

The thing I don’t get Joanna is that something changed between March and May of last year. Before I left for New York divorce was not even a thing on anybody’s tongue and when I came back and suddenly was there. What happened between March April, and May of last year?

Mar 05, 2023 4:49:33 AM Me

I was away, giving her space and time as she had asked, and working to heal my depression and meditating and trying to get better so I could return and we could begin to heal our relationship

Mar 05, 2023 4:50:19 AM (Read by you after 1 second) +18056371315

I don’t know…But again, wasted energy/emotion/rear view mirror.

Mar 05, 2023 4:50:22 AM Me

I’ve always been committed to her 100% and always supported her no matter what and now I’m getting the shaft and it’s no fair

Mar 05, 2023 4:50:29 AM +18056371315

You live in the present.

Mar 05, 2023 4:50:40 AM Me

I do

Mar 05, 2023 4:51:02 AM Me

But in order to heal, people, need to look back and have understanding

Mar 05, 2023 4:51:23 AM Me

And to become a better human, you need understanding, and when others are unwilling to share or communicate, you’re unable to learn and become better.

Mar 05, 2023 4:51:25 AM +18056371315

What’s stopping you from exploring these feelings with a therapist, now that you’re working (and hopefully have health insurance)?

Mar 05, 2023 4:51:46 AM ⇲ Me

I do

Mar 05, 2023 4:51:53 AM ⇲ Me

And have been for a long time

Mar 05, 2023 4:51:31 AM Me

Elizabeth is denying me that opportunity

Mar 05, 2023 4:51:46 AM ⇱ Me

I do
This message responded to an earlier message.

Mar 05, 2023 4:51:53 AM ⇱ Me

And have been for a long time
This message responded to an earlier message.

Mar 05, 2023 4:52:25 AM Me

I’ve done nothing but work on myself and my relationship since that day in July

Mar 05, 2023 4:52:36 AM Me

But I can’t work on my relationship only by myself

Mar 05, 2023 4:52:45 AM Me

And Liz is unwilling

Mar 05, 2023 4:53:02 AM Me

It’s very sad because I had such an incredible future ahead for us

Mar 05, 2023 4:53:03 AM (Read by you after 1 second) +18056371315

But why not individual therapy?

Mar 05, 2023 4:53:15 AM Me

Yes, I do

Mar 05, 2023 4:53:28 AM +18056371315

Do you see a therapist 1 on 1 weekly?

Mar 05, 2023 4:53:35 AM Me

Meds and therapy I’ve been doing it for two years

Mar 05, 2023 4:53:38 AM +18056371315

If so, what does s/he say?

Mar 05, 2023 4:54:09 AM ⇲ Me

That I am incredibly optimistic

Mar 05, 2023 4:54:00 AM +18056371315

What does your individual therapist say?

Mar 05, 2023 4:54:09 AM ⇱ Me

That I am incredibly optimistic
This message responded to an earlier message.

Mar 05, 2023 4:54:17 AM +18056371315

And…?

Mar 05, 2023 4:54:30 AM +18056371315

Is it a he or a she?

Mar 05, 2023 4:54:37 AM Me

He

Mar 05, 2023 4:55:01 AM (Read by you after 2 seconds) +18056371315

Does he offer any advice or insights about how to proceed?

Mar 05, 2023 4:55:48 AM +18056371315

Or how to cope?

Mar 05, 2023 4:55:49 AM Me

I’ve been focused on me and depression mostly. Yes, to listen and be patient

Mar 05, 2023 4:56:30 AM Me

To use my tools to manage dysregulation and triggers

Mar 05, 2023 4:56:45 AM +18056371315

What tools work best for you?

Mar 05, 2023 4:56:50 AM Me

| And early on in couples therapy it was very hard for me not to get triggered since everything is so wrong and emotional
Edited 14 seconds later | And early on in couples therapy it was very hard for me not to get triggered since everything is so raw and emotional

Mar 05, 2023 4:56:54 AM +18056371315

At 4 am.

Mar 05, 2023 4:57:27 AM Me

Tools for what in particular what do I need to solve?

Mar 05, 2023 4:57:55 AM +18056371315

What tools help you regulate and feel most centered…especially at 4 am, when you can’’t exercise.

Mar 05, 2023 4:57:57 AM Me

I didn’t realize it was 4 AM, I can’t believe I’m keeping you up

Mar 05, 2023 4:58:19 AM +18056371315

I’m a night owl, but I should sleep soon.

Mar 05, 2023 4:58:46 AM Me

One of the main tools is to know that at any moment I can just drop in to my meditation and basically be out of my body and mind

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Mar 05, 2023 5:00:18 AM +18056371315

Medication seems to put people in a more compassionate frame of mind…compassion for self, for others, for all humans.

Mar 05, 2023 5:00:28 AM +18056371315

Meditation.

Mar 05, 2023 5:00:40 AM Me

The other tool is I’ve put in enough work that I am regulated and centered pretty much all the time now and it’s rather rare for me to get triggered. Next time you’re with Declan and Darragh ask them if I get mad anymore. I used to flip out about everything, I flip out about nothing now nothing bothers me anymore really. And that’s what I mean when I say I am a new person. Liz has no experience with a Bert that isn’t bothered by every little thing. And it’s a damn shame because she has put in all this work, and helping me become the best version of myself and I am likely to go find someone who will benefit from all of Lyza’s hard work.

Mar 05, 2023 5:01:36 AM +18056371315

“she has put in all this work, and helping me become the best version of myself”

Mar 05, 2023 5:01:44 AM Me

Although right now I will share a superstition with you that I’ve had for sometime, and I have not shared it with anyone else

Mar 05, 2023 5:01:46 AM +18056371315

That’s great to hear.

Mar 05, 2023 5:01:56 AM +18056371315

That “she has put in all this work, and helping me become the best version of myself.”

Mar 05, 2023 5:02:06 AM +18056371315

That’s a big gift.

Mar 05, 2023 5:02:08 AM Me

That’s exactly it. It is great to hear except Liz doesn’t hear that or see it.

Mar 05, 2023 5:02:25 AM +18056371315

But she has given you that gift.

Mar 05, 2023 5:02:44 AM Me

To me, she’s too busy thinking I am still the old Bert, and is just unwilling and too selfish to care

Mar 05, 2023 5:03:13 AM +18056371315

But she “put in all this work, and helped you become the best version of yourself.”

Mar 05, 2023 5:03:23 AM +18056371315

Some people never get that from a spouse.

Mar 05, 2023 5:03:53 AM Me

I don’t really see it as a gift so much as some thing I have gone out and earned on my own.

Mar 05, 2023 5:04:03 AM Me

I don’t really see it as a gift

Mar 05, 2023 5:04:08 AM +18056371315

But you said “she has put in all this work”

Mar 05, 2023 5:04:55 AM Me

She has put in a ton of work putting up with my bullshit. You know the normal stuff that people deal with day-to-day she’s lived with me this long, and now I finally made a breakthrough in my life. I’ve been able to dump all my baggage off my shoulders, and I actually feel like a relaxed normal human being, and that somebody she doesn’t know.

Mar 05, 2023 5:05:24 AM Me

What I’m trying to say is she doesn’t even know who she’s divorcing

Mar 05, 2023 5:05:46 AM Me

She’s divorcing the old me, and I am here the new me, and want to be heard and acknowledged, and like I said, everybody’s just walking me to the guillotine

Mar 05, 2023 5:05:58 AM +18056371315

You get to take all you’ve learned into your next relationship.

Mar 05, 2023 5:09:00 AM Me

I don’t think I’m going to have a next relationship honestly. I’ve had a weird superstition that I am going to get cancer this year and die. I had a weird dream about it more than once. I have a physical coming up in two weeks and haven’t had one in a long time. I have been feeling lots of weird stuff in my body. We’ll see. Wouldn’t that be something, getting divorced and having cancer at the same time? I mean I already dealt with losing my job and having my marriage go upside down and major depressive disorder all at the same time

Mar 05, 2023 5:10:13 AM Me

I have been doing my best at trying to take better care of myself, but the last three years have been incredibly hard on my mind and body with the amount of stress I have been dealing with.

Mar 05, 2023 5:10:38 AM +18056371315

I better go to bed, since it’s late…but it makes me feel good to hear you feel like the best version of yourself and in the best place…and that you’re seeing a therapist weekly. And that you’re living in the now.

Mar 05, 2023 5:10:40 AM Me

it feels like I have aged more in the past three years, then in the past 30

Mar 05, 2023 5:10:47 AM +18056371315

I wrote that before reading your last text.

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Mar 05, 2023 5:11:24 AM Me

It would be fitting, though, with as shitty as my life is been going. It would just be the cherry on top to get some cancer.

Mar 05, 2023 5:11:50 AM +18056371315

Get the physical so your mind can be at ease. You learned about CBT with your old therapist, right?

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Mar 05, 2023 5:11:58 AM +18056371315

I recall you discussing CBT.

Mar 05, 2023 5:12:17 AM +18056371315

Fortune telling? Jumping to conclusions? Black and white thinking?

Mar 05, 2023 5:12:26 AM Me

And that weird superstition comes from the fact that when I was extremely majorly, depressed and facing suicide, but could not do it, I continuously wish cancer upon me, meaning, I wished cancer upon myself as a way of taking me out, because I didn’t have the courage to do it with my own hand

Mar 05, 2023 5:12:35 AM +18056371315

All that was covered in your therapy, yes?

Mar 05, 2023 5:13:14 AM Me

You mean DBT

Mar 05, 2023 5:13:17 AM Me

?

Mar 05, 2023 5:14:02 AM (Read by you after 1 second) +18056371315

DBT incorporates CBT…but you told me about your old therapist years ago and I swear you told me she was discussing CBT.

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Mar 05, 2023 5:14:32 AM +18056371315

One sec, I’ll see if this refreshes your memory…

Mar 05, 2023 5:14:41 AM Me

K

Mar 05, 2023 5:15:33 AM +18056371315

Do these look familiar or ring a bell?

Mar 05, 2023 5:15:40 AM +18056371315

Verywell Mind

Mar 05, 2023 5:17:42 AM ⇲ Me

OMG yes

Mar 05, 2023 5:17:09 AM +18056371315

Have you seen this Ted Talk before?

Mar 05, 2023 5:18:03 AM ⇲ Me

No, but I will check it out

Mar 05, 2023 5:17:21 AM +18056371315

YouTube

Mar 05, 2023 5:17:42 AM ⇱ Me

OMG yes
This message responded to an earlier message.

Mar 05, 2023 5:17:55 AM +18056371315

He says almost word for word what you just said.

Mar 05, 2023 5:18:03 AM ⇱ Me

No, but I will check it out
This message responded to an earlier message.

Mar 05, 2023 5:18:04 AM +18056371315

“People pray for cancer.”

Mar 05, 2023 5:18:40 AM Me

I’ve heard that phrase before maybe it’s attributed to him, but I know that is a common thing among depressives, who are unwilling or incapable of carrying out their own suicide

Mar 05, 2023 5:18:46 AM +18056371315

Burns is a Stanford Psychiatrist..or used to teach there at least.

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Mar 05, 2023 5:19:20 AM Me

I have one YouTube video for you as well. Hold on let me get the link.

Mar 05, 2023 5:19:38 AM +18056371315

Ok

Mar 05, 2023 5:21:20 AM Me

YouTube

Mar 05, 2023 5:21:35 AM Me

No one puts depression into words as well as this man in my opinion

Mar 05, 2023 5:21:56 AM +18056371315

If I watch the entire video now, would you be willing to watch the entire Burns video (18 minutes).

Mar 05, 2023 5:22:10 AM Me

Ok

Mar 05, 2023 5:22:27 AM +18056371315

Ok, I’m watching it now.

Mar 05, 2023 5:22:50 AM Me

That YouTube video made me cry many many times while listening to it during my depression

Mar 05, 2023 5:23:08 AM Me

I found that video during the dark times, and it was one of the things that saved me

Mar 05, 2023 5:47:26 AM Me

That was very good 👍

Mar 05, 2023 5:47:59 AM (Read by you after 1 second) +18056371315

Really interesting video that you sent too. Still going,

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Mar 05, 2023 5:48:03 AM +18056371315

9 minutes left.

Mar 05, 2023 5:57:12 AM +18056371315

Great last 9 minutes.

Mar 05, 2023 5:58:37 AM +18056371315

Ok, goodnight, thanks for the video link and for listening to David Burns. I am wishing you and Liz peace. Goodnight.

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Mar 05, 2023 5:58:43 AM Me

I’m gonna try to get some sleep or, try to fall asleep before the sun rises. Thank you for again for sharing the video with me and I hope I have not caused you any undue stress texting with me about all of this. I am grateful that you shared the things behind why Liz is wanting a divorce because like I said honestly, no one‘s told me clearly and feeling Confused as to why it’s happening hurts probably more than it happening at all. My heart is breaking for nearly 2 years, and I thought that it would be possible for us to heal together, but instead, my broken heart 💔 will go on for a long fucking time. I am so depressed , because none of us deserved any of this suffering and it honestly would not be difficult to put in the effort to heal for everyone. Instead, If consequential decisions are made on half truths, and things that aren’t true. And I’m just supposed to go along with it. Again, if she doesn’t share why we can’t talk about it and have closure. I need to hear from her why this is happening not I’m done I need to know why. And if anything in the reason why isn’t true or is made up I’m gonna have a really hard time reconciling that.

Mar 05, 2023 6:01:11 AM Me

there was one thing and some thing you shared earlier about why she said she’s done, and it’s totally not true. It’s something she believes that she’s inferred from some thing but it’s not true.

Mar 05, 2023 6:01:59 AM Me

Again, she’s inferring things and not talking to me and asking. She doesn’t talk to me and doesn’t ask me things and is making decisions about things she thinks she knows but hasn’t spoken to me so I don’t know how that’s possible.

Mar 05, 2023 6:02:09 AM Me

Ok sleep time

Mar 05, 2023 6:02:14 AM Me

G night

Mar 05, 2023 6:02:16 AM +18056371315

You say “I need to hear from her why this is happening” but what if you never understand it? I would say the first order of business is to recognize and respect her boundaries. Ok, goodnight, before we get further into this.

Mar 05, 2023 6:02:50 AM Me

Wait, you’re telling me she can just say I want a divorce and not explain herself?

Mar 05, 2023 6:02:59 AM Me

That’s pretty heartless and cold

Mar 05, 2023 6:03:15 AM +18056371315

You don’t have to agree on the rear view mirror.

Mar 05, 2023 6:03:17 AM Me

And honestly it’s kind of what I’m feeling

Mar 05, 2023 6:03:42 AM +18056371315

You can have your separate views and feelings about who did what, where and how, in my opinion.

Mar 05, 2023 6:03:44 AM Me

I can’t move forward and have closure unless she explains herself. If she does not explain herself, I will never talk to her again.

Mar 05, 2023 6:03:57 AM Me

You can take that to the bank

Mar 05, 2023 6:04:19 AM Me

There is no closure without talking this through

Mar 05, 2023 6:04:43 AM (Read by you after 6 hours, 30 minutes, 36 seconds) +18056371315

Ok Bert, we agree to disagree. But I am still wishing you both compassion and peace.

Mar 05, 2023 6:04:56 AM You unsent a message.

Mar 05, 2023 6:05:17 AM Me

She’s the one to deciding to leave the family not me

Mar 05, 2023 6:05:27 AM Me

So if you don’t wanna be a part of the family, go do your own thing go do you

Mar 05, 2023 6:05:33 AM +18056371315

Wishing you compassion, healing, and peace…but now sating goodnight.

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Mar 05, 2023 6:05:41 AM +18056371315

Saying goodnight.

Mar 05, 2023 6:05:50 AM Me

Thank you good night

Mar 05, 2023 10:48:30 AM Me

Hope you got sleep. I was up before 9am

Mar 05, 2023 12:04:15 PM Me

I was thinking this morning that the idea or belief that I don’t listen as a basis for a part of this is using logic, to borrow from last night, basing things on the past, not on who I am now or who I am going forward, so that doesn’t make any sense to me. Again the understanding and truth one clings to make it impossible to see or hear anything new. She’s unwilling to meet the new me. I am a far better kind, caring, listening, and compassionate human than I’ve ever been in my entire life. I can hold my pain and my problems and not let them affect other people. I intentionally shut up in conversations now with anybody and truly listen. I don’t talk unless I have something to add. Conversations, if they are triggering, I am able, with my awareness, to catch myself before interrupting. And at that moment, hold onto that thought while shifting back to listening. Later, when I process the trigger, if I feel it’s warranted, as if something of concern, I would bring it up. I use my tools, and I process it the way that works for me. again, thanks a lot last night for texting with me. I appreciate it.

Mar 05, 2023 12:06:46 PM Me

all of the above is to say, no one has spent any time with me, for a long enough period of time to even begin to understand how I’ve changed. And I find that incredibly disappointing and sad. it is if you’re not being noticed, and I know what that feels like and I’m quite aware of it. OK hope you have a great day!

Mar 05, 2023 12:30:49 PM Me

OK, sorry, the last thing I remembered was something I wanted to share. During Covid times, when I was in the darkest, most horrible places of depression, being lied to, and thinking about suicide, I was in a bad place. One evening I remember breaking down in front of Elizabeth while sitting in the bed, trying to talk with her, and I was so scared at those moments; I begged her and pleaded with her to “please, please don’t give up on me!“ I was begging my wife not to give up on me because I was afraid of falling off the deep end. And I kept asking her please don’t give up on me; finally, she said yes, OK, I won’t give up on you. Knowing that and thinking about that hurts, and it is in the past, but she made a promise to me when I was in the most vulnerable place. I’ve been in my life. And she gave up on me after saying that to me when I was in that vulnerable space. Time and time again, when I asked for support or help, I was kept at a distance; I was told to get help, not here, let me help you. You know, depressed people are capable of walking themselves into a hospital and saying hello, I’m very depressed. I want some help, but that does not happen. i’ve brought this and other promises she made to me up in conversation with her, and her reply is “sorry I didn’t mean to say that“ Zero compassion

Mar 05, 2023 12:39:30 PM Me

Also the issue I have with listening is rooted in my childhood survival instincts to be vigilant in the face of uncertainty and threat. It’s a defense and survival tool that was critical to me surviving my early years. However I had no idea I was doing it at all—because, ta-da, I was DYSREGULATED 24/7. Now that I’m rooted and regulated far more than dysregulation shows up its far easier for me to “be” and listen, and NOT react. Again, no one has bothered to spend time with me to discover that.

Mar 05, 2023 3:08:09 PM (Read by you after 50 minutes, 2 seconds) +18056371315

You mentioned no one has spent time with you...who is the "no one"...me, Sherry, someone else?

Mar 05, 2023 3:11:36 PM (Read by you after 46 minutes, 35 seconds) +18056371315

I can tell you that just for myself, just from our text last night (and now), I feel overwhelmed. We jump from topic to topic from one story to another. It makes me feel like there is no point in talking bc we just go round in circles.

Mar 05, 2023 3:30:11 PM (Read by you after 28 minutes) +18056371315

I have known Liz for almost 40 years and my experience of her is that she is truthful and compassionate. I've seen her compassion in many ways -- in how she brought up her kids, how she rescued Beckett, how she goes to her mom's night after night (even when exhausted), how she gives free horse riding lessons to people who can't afford to pay, how she helps struggling people finish Ironman races, how she has helped me through difficult things in my life. I could go on and on. She is not uncaring. Neither are you. You are both good people and I wish you'd stop trying to convince me otherwise. Or stop trying to persuade me she's in the wrong here. It really upsets me to hear you talking about her like she's uncaring or someone who breaks promises. Maybe she said she wouldn't give up on you because she felt emotionally pressured to say that. Maybe you didn't give her the space to talk about what she needed in that moment. Maybe it was all about you in that moment and her compassion got the better of her and she said what she thought you most needed to hear. Holding that moment of compassion over her head like the sword of Damocles is completely unacceptable in my opinion. In these texts it seems to me like you are asking me to side with you, and to see things how you see things. Bert, that is inappropriate and unacceptable. I am Liz's friend. She's like a sister to me. Please do not insult my sister to me or ask me to take your side over hers.

Mar 05, 2023 4:08:51 PM Me

I want to be clear with you. I am not asking you to take my side in anything. I’m sharing the other side of the story that you have not heard and have no idea about. And you’re right she is caring and compassionate. The thing was she was giving it away to everybody else and I got none of it. I’m sorry if you don’t like hearing that about your friend and how she miss treated me, because you probably think it’s ot within her, but it is, I am living testament to it and whenever I have brought it up and wanted to talk about it. She essentially told me she had nothing to say. I felt completely forgotten and abandoned during a mental health crisis. I wasn’t looking for somebody to solve my problems. I was just looking for somebody to help me because I wasn’t capableof helping myself. I knew that because of my depression and the patterns of behavior instilled in me in childhood, that I was not aware of. They were controlling me and I was in capable of expressing my needs in a rational coherent way. That’s not my fault I wasn’t aware of it . In the realm of things I didn’t know that I didn’t know at the time. I’m not making excuses. I’m sharing my experience and reality that is all. And apologies for the scatterbrain, I am facing the death of a 30 year relationship that I still love and want to be alive so if you could cut me just a little bit of slack, I’d be really grateful

Mar 05, 2023 4:13:40 PM Me

Again, I’m not asking you to take sides, and I understand your relationship with Elizabeth, so it makes sense to me that you’re so close. My apologies if I have upset you in anyway it was never my intention to do that, I’m just sharing my side of the story with you, so you have a better understanding of everything. Neither of us are innocent in the destruction of this relationship. I have clearly acknowledged, and owned my parts of it. And if I haven’t, it’s likely some thing I don’t know that I don’t know and hasn’t been told to me. Remember, I find out from people about what Liz is thinking. I don’t find out from her what she’s thinking because she won’t tell me. I am more than ready to sit and listen and understand her, and that’s what I need. I need to listen to her and understand her because right now I don’t.

Mar 06, 2023 2:04:01 PM (Read by you after 48 minutes, 36 seconds) +18056371315

Bert, I'm going to step back bc I don't think I'm helping here. I'll say for the record that comments that seem intended to make me feel guilty don't sit well with me. They feel manipulative and unfair. I've done a great deal to support your marriage, starting with taking care of your wonderful kids pretty much every time Liz left town. I think if you weigh what I've done to support you and Liz against what you've done to support me and David, you'll find your comment unfounded, to say the least. But I know these comments are coming out of the hard time you're going through and likely aren't really you. I had a dad who tried to controll people through guilt, shame and anger (perhaps you did too?) and tried to keep people close to him that way. I've found it never works and only drives people further away...cauing more anguish and anger. It's a terrible cycle and I don't want to see you go down that road...a road that ultimately leads to resentment and (sometimes) vindictiveness. Bert, you're too good a person to go down that road. I have seen your kindness and warm heart, and all the work you've done in the past 2 years getting to a better place. You don't deserve to be resentful or ever become vindictive (that's a dark place). Your kids don't deserve seeing you in that place. And Liz doesn't deserve it either. I'm going to sign off (please don't think I'm ghosting you if I don't respond...I'm just trying to ensure I don't make things any harder than they already are). But please know I love you, I love Liz, I love your kids (I'm getting tears in my eyes as I write this...I know I don't tell any of you this often enough)...I love your whole family and want nothing but happiness and peace for all of you.

Mar 06, 2023 4:02:03 PM Me

Jo, Thanks for communicating Thanks for being a friend I hear you, and no problem going quiet. A few last things need to be made clear, and please ask if you have any questions: - I am not looking to discount Liz's experience or her story at all - I understand I hurt her badly. - I know she continues to feel hurt. - I know my role in all of this hurt. - I'm trying to help us heal. - I've repeatedly expressed remorse, regret, and repentance to Elizabeth for causing this hurt. - I'm not trying to make anyone believe my story as, or take it as, the truth. - Different people have different experiences. All of the information I've heard about the reason for this divorce beyond Jul 3 has been secondhand. I'd like to fully understand how Elizabeth has gotten to divorce as the solution to this situation. And to improve our communications so we can co-parent well in the future. I appreciate you and respect you. Thank you for understanding. Bert

Mar 06, 2023 4:11:27 PM (Read by you after 8 seconds) +18056371315

❤️

Mar 06, 2023 4:11:47 PM Me

Likewise

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May 01, 2023 11:24:15 AM (Read by you after 1 hour, 19 minutes, 27 seconds) +18056371315

Happy Birthday, Bert! I hope you have a great day 🎂

May 01, 2023 12:44:02 PM Me

Hi Jo, thanks ☺️

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May 01, 2023 6:46:00 PM (Read by you after 14 minutes, 19 seconds) +18056371315

Are you doing something nice tonight or this weekend?

May 01, 2023 7:00:44 PM Me

Headed to sea fresh with D+D right now. On Saturday dinner with all 3 boys and Sallie

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May 01, 2023 7:07:47 PM (Read by you after 2 hours, 37 minutes, 14 seconds) +18056371315

Have a great time!!

May 08, 2023 9:30:02 AM Me

Twitter

May 08, 2023 9:35:00 AM Me

🤣

May 19, 2023 8:34:30 PM Me

Hi Joe, thanks for talking with me. I’m grateful for everything you’ve done for me and my family and I want you to know that!! Like I said to you I feel misunderstood , not talked to, and I’m kept at an incredible distance so I’m literally in the dark on what’s going on. Combined with the triple, moving, divorce, and losing my job with the prospect of being homeless AND jobless in a few weeks I’m not sure how much more I can carry than that. I let my stress get the best of me speaking to you, I’m aware of that and I apologize for triggering you to make you feel uncomfortable. That was never my intention. Mea Culpa, Bert 😐

May 19, 2023 9:14:01 PM (Read by you after 8 minutes, 19 seconds) +18056371315

I apologize too, both for getting upset and for saying anything that upset you. My behavior was not ok in that moment...and I'm truly sorry. I think we all have our own pain, and sometimes that impairs us from seeing someone else's pain. Through my lens, I see in you someone who has everything...three amazing children, both parents alive, and a large extended family who loves him. But I should be grateful for all I do have (and I truly am)...and I should be more empathetic. I hope you know that what I was most trying to convey is that there is a way through this. I have been so low before too, after my mom died, my marriage to David ended, Fuzzy died, and I was living alone for months during Covid...it was a very difficult time. I'm glad I didn't make any major decisions then, because I know I wasn't thinking straight. But I did come through it...or I'm continuing to come through it, and I truly believe there is an amazing future for any of us, if we choose to believe in it, and create it.

May 31, 2023 1:19:53 PM (Read by you after 4 hours, 3 minutes, 19 seconds) +18056371315

Just reaching out to say hi, check in, and let you know I am hoping everything is going as well as possible, given the circumstances.

May 31, 2023 5:26:35 PM Me

Hi Jo! I am in the best mood I’ve been in, in over 5 years or more. I’m not trying to do anything in particular. Good meditation practice pays off. Mentally feel the best I’ve ever felt. No anxiety, no depression, no worry at all. circumstances are uncontrollable I control the controllables and just be. Everything else, is everything else. Really is that simple, just takes a long time to get there.

May 31, 2023 5:26:51 PM Me

Thanks for asking and checking in. Very kind of you 😊

May 31, 2023 5:27:19 PM Me

I trust all is well in your orbit?

May 31, 2023 5:29:32 PM Me

Ps. Everything for me is going according to schedule. Last large items are going into storage momentarily. Then some things to pack in the office and I will be essentially untethered from here. There are still some items that need addressing, but I have the bulk of me out of the house.

May 31, 2023 5:37:27 PM (Read by you after 7 minutes, 31 seconds) +18056371315

I'm glad to hear you're feeling so good...especially after doing so much work. When I moved, I felt 80 years old after moving so many boxes...didn't walk upright for days I think. Glad that you are much healthier than I've let myself become. All is well on my end, thank you. Sending you nothing but good wishes for safe travels.

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May 31, 2023 6:06:44 PM Me

Pic of Darrell and familia from Moab Utah yesterday. His youngest Lily is not in the picture.

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May 31, 2023 6:08:05 PM Me

My summer home 🏠 in Carbondale Colorado 😁

May 31, 2023 6:08:27 PM Me

Pics from Darrell

May 31, 2023 6:10:35 PM (Read by you after 1 minute, 33 seconds) +18056371315

Always wanted a "summer home." Looks amazing. And there isn't a kinder or warmer person to be around than Darrell (if memory serves).

May 31, 2023 6:12:50 PM Me

Yep 👍 But he’s a busy fella with 2 little people under 7 😁

Jun 01, 2023 12:00:13 AM (Read by you after 13 minutes, 42 seconds) +18056371315

I bet.

Sep 06, 2023 8:33:25 AM Me

Happy birthday Jo! 🎂🥳
Sent with Confetti

Sep 06, 2023 12:11:11 PM (Read by you after 4 minutes, 23 seconds) +18056371315

Thank you!! ❤️

Jan 15, 2024 9:34:39 PM Me

Started building a collection Thought u might like to listen

Jan 15, 2024 9:34:41 PM Me

YouTube

Jan 15, 2024 9:41:43 PM (Read by you after 1 hour, 5 minutes, 17 seconds) +18056371315

I remember Joe Frank fondly...from the Long Beach days!

Jan 15, 2024 9:41:52 PM (Read by you after 1 hour, 5 minutes, 8 seconds) +18056371315

Thanks for sending.

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May 01, 2024 10:33:12 PM (Read by you after 46 minutes, 45 seconds) +18056371315

Heppy Birthday, Beert!

May 01, 2024 10:35:13 PM (Read by you after 44 minutes, 44 seconds) +18056371315

Oops, I meant Bert!

Jun 01, 2024 6:51:44 PM (Read by you after 50 minutes, 32 seconds) +18056371315

You have raised such wonderful, amazing kids. Congratulations on all of them, and on Darragh today! ❤️

Jun 01, 2024 7:44:21 PM Me

Thanks Joanna. Sorry I didn’t get to say hello. Today was rather intense.

Jun 01, 2024 10:00:53 PM (Read by you after 9 minutes, 4 seconds) +18056371315

Not at all, I completely understand.

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Jun 01, 2024 10:02:12 PM (Read by you after 7 minutes, 45 seconds) +18056371315

Please say a warm hello to both your parents and Aunt Pat for me. I'm sorry I didn't get to say hello to them either.

Jun 01, 2024 10:12:00 PM (Read by you after 3 seconds) +18056371315

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Jun 01, 2024 10:12:07 PM (Read by you after 4 seconds) +18056371315

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Jun 01, 2024 10:12:19 PM Me

They’re here in OJAI all day tomorrow and don’t depart until Monday. They’re in room 16 at the hummingbird inn across from the fire station east of soule park golf course. They did mention seeing you but didn’t get to say hello. 👋 I know that they would love to see you even if it’s just a swing by.

Jun 01, 2024 10:13:13 PM Me

We’re planning on a morning breakfast at Bonnie Lus tomorrow with Aidan and Cori before they blast 💥 off for San Diego

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Jun 01, 2024 10:14:21 PM +18056371315

I'd love to see them too...but only if they have time, I know they have their hands full with things to do and people to see.

Jun 01, 2024 10:15:33 PM Me

Ah, but after breakfast I believe they’re just chilling at the hotel. They’ve been going non stop since arriving last Monday.

Jun 01, 2024 10:16:00 PM Me

And they LOVE TO TALK as do all our elders 😁

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Jun 01, 2024 10:16:17 PM Me

My aunt Pat is a hoot

Jun 01, 2024 10:16:43 PM Me

Her and my mom together are their own tv show

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Jun 01, 2024 10:17:14 PM Me

“Old sisters 👯‍♀️ Bitch!”

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Jun 01, 2024 10:17:19 PM Me

Haha

Jun 01, 2024 10:17:31 PM +18056371315

I'd love to see them, if they're not too exhausted by the weekend. Is there anywhere they'd want to see that I could drive them to? Meditation Mount? Ventura?

Jun 01, 2024 10:17:40 PM +18056371315

Ha ha!

Jun 01, 2024 10:17:41 PM Me

Ooo

Jun 01, 2024 10:17:50 PM Me

Interesting idea

Jun 01, 2024 10:17:57 PM Me

Possibly

Jun 01, 2024 10:18:17 PM (Read by you after 1 second) +18056371315

Ask them if therems anywhere I can take them and I'd love to do that.

Jun 01, 2024 10:18:23 PM Me

Ok

Jun 01, 2024 10:18:33 PM +18056371315

Pier in Ventura, or lovely Santa Barbara.

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Jun 01, 2024 10:18:35 PM Me

Perfect I’ll let you know

Jun 01, 2024 10:18:43 PM (Read by you after 1 second) +18056371315

Ok, thanks so much!

Jun 02, 2024 10:46:54 AM Me

Hi Joanna My mom got back to me and suggested coming to breakfast because she thought she’d be packing her bags this afternoon at the hotel. they want to go to Bonnie Lou’s with the boys. They’re planning on being there at 10:30am

Jun 02, 2024 12:19:36 PM (Read by you after 7 hours, 19 minutes, 41 seconds) +18056371315

Thanks Bert, sorry I'm going to have to regrettably pass. My sleep is messed up these days and I'm going back to sleep for a bit.

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Jun 02, 2024 12:20:44 PM (Read by you after 7 hours, 18 minutes, 33 seconds) +18056371315

I'm sorry I'll miss them this time. But thanks for trying to make the connection.

Jun 02, 2024 7:39:46 PM Me

Sure thing. No worried at all

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Jun 03, 2024 10:58:17 AM (Read by them after 3 hours, 46 minutes, 5 seconds) Me

Joanna, you are so sweet for leaving the bag of treats this morning. They were so grateful for thoughtfulness. Thanks!!

Jun 03, 2024 2:54:40 PM (Read by you after 17 hours, 48 minutes, 8 seconds) +18056371315

So my pleasure. Safe travels for them.

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